00:00:00:06 - 00:00:07:19
Daniel Franco
Welcome back to the Creating Synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today on this show we have the great Myron Mann. Welcome.

00:00:07:24 - 00:00:08:09
Myron Mann
Thank you.

00:00:09:19 - 00:00:34:17
Daniel Franco
Quick rundown, CEO of Bedford Group, second largest employer of people with disability in Australia, supporting approximately about 2000 South Australians and over 500 plus staff. Is that about right? Previously CEO of Sheridan Australia and many more other CEO gigs will go into that a bit later. But you're an expert in turning businesses around. Is that what I'm like?

00:00:34:20 - 00:00:35:04
Myron Mann
What I thought.

00:00:35:04 - 00:00:59:22
Daniel Franco
Of what you're trying is you're passionate about great leadership, being a fellow of the Governance Leadership Foundation, you're on the board there for four years, but you're also passionate about social impact. So we'll go into those sort of topics as we go through. But I am going to start off this podcast slightly differently, and it was because of something that you wrote in your bio when you submitted that a form to us, right?

00:00:59:23 - 00:01:14:00
Daniel Franco
And you said a quote, “I'm one of the only few people in Australia that would have attended Woodstock 1969”. That's a long time ago. So were you 18 or you old enough to attend? Well, ahead of that. But back then.

00:01:14:29 - 00:01:16:04
Myron Mann
I had just turned 20.

00:01:16:04 - 00:01:16:27
Daniel Franco
Just turned 20.

00:01:16:29 - 00:01:25:01
Myron Mann
Eight. So I was in university. Yeah. And there was no advertising of Woodstock. It was word of mouth.

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Daniel Franco
Yeah. wow.

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Myron Mann
I think as you do in university, I think probably heard about it on a Wednesday and got on the road on Thursday evening. Yeah. Well off we went with no idea where we would go. What, what, what. It was really.

00:01:37:21 - 00:01:44:07
Daniel Franco
About what we're going to experience. So what was it like or what was the experience like?

00:01:44:21 - 00:01:46:17
Myron Mann
Well, I hate to say my memory's a bit foggy.

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Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:01:47:06 - 00:01:55:13
Myron Mann
It's just from the circumstances, but the. It was a big farm field. Yep. Raining.

00:01:55:16 - 00:01:55:25
Daniel Franco
Yep.

00:01:55:25 - 00:02:01:16
Myron Mann
Full of mud. Yeah. Most incredible lineup of performing artists that you could possibly.

00:02:01:16 - 00:02:07:02
Daniel Franco
I was doing a bit of research on. I know about Woodstock, but I didn't really know the depth until before. And I was like, wow.

00:02:07:15 - 00:02:29:03
Myron Mann
It just and I, it, it, it sort of just happened, you know, it wasn't like one of these planned events and people just continually rolled in over the over the weekend and it music just kept going and you couldn't always get close to the stage. Yeah. No. If you, if there was someone particular you wanted to say you, whatever you do, you.

00:02:29:03 - 00:02:30:09
Daniel Franco
Really get close to.

00:02:31:28 - 00:02:36:20
Myron Mann
It, which is people trying to get there and everybody was just sleeping.

00:02:36:24 - 00:02:58:00
Daniel Franco
You know, is there anything that sticks in your mind like, yeah, I said your memory was foggy. I get there, but it's, you know, considering the circumstances there. Is there anything that sticks in your mind that you go you look back on at Woodstock and go, I can't believe I saw that or I can't believe I witnessed that or Yeah.

00:02:58:00 - 00:03:01:20
Myron Mann
Well, I think the story that probably sticks out in my mind is.

00:03:01:20 - 00:03:02:10
Daniel Franco
Even the.

00:03:02:20 - 00:03:04:17
Myron Mann
The the journey to Woodstock.

00:03:04:17 - 00:03:06:19
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Okay. We actually.

00:03:06:19 - 00:03:07:14
Myron Mann
Hitch-hiked

00:03:07:14 - 00:03:08:00
Daniel Franco
Oh, wow.

00:03:08:04 - 00:03:28:06
Myron Mann
And it was probably a little over a thousand miles, too. Yeah. Well, you know, so, you know, 15 to 1600 kilometers to to get there and when we got to so we started out in Virginia and we got to Washington, D.C. There's a big beltway that goes around Washington. And we got picked up by these two guys in a car.

00:03:28:06 - 00:03:36:12
Myron Mann
And they said that they had been around the whole Beltway twice because they couldn't remember which exit they needed. You know, if we could point them on to the right.

00:03:36:12 - 00:03:36:28
Daniel Franco
Exit, they.

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Myron Mann
Would they would drive us.

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Daniel Franco
As far as they would go. Yeah, well.

00:03:40:25 - 00:03:46:15
Myron Mann
I just remember this. This crazy two guys. It picked us up. You wouldn't do that today? No, you couldn't do that.

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Daniel Franco
No.

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Myron Mann
In those days, it didn't feel unsafe at all. You just met people. Talk to them.

00:03:51:27 - 00:04:09:18
Daniel Franco
Well, what's interesting is probably safer. These days, but just there's so much more media, isn't there, really? I mean, yeah, that's why we wouldn't do it today, because it's so visibly available to see what can go wrong. Um, did you have the long locks and the mustache? Is that like. Well.

00:04:10:21 - 00:04:20:16
Myron Mann
I had a bit of an afro. Yeah, I was actually quite curly if I let it grow. And so. Yeah, so yeah, I was, I looked the part.

00:04:20:20 - 00:04:26:17
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Well done. That's amazing. We won't spend too much time, you know, you also said you're a great cook, is that correct?

00:04:27:21 - 00:04:29:11
Myron Mann
Well, everyone tells.

00:04:29:11 - 00:04:31:15
Daniel Franco
Me that. Yeah, I get a bit of love.

00:04:31:24 - 00:04:37:16
Myron Mann
Well, I. I really enjoy cooking. Yeah, I find it relaxing where most people find it stressful.

00:04:37:16 - 00:04:39:09
Daniel Franco
Yeah. What. What's your best dish?

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Myron Mann
Ooh, I make a mean smoked salmon pasta.

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Daniel Franco
oh do you.

00:04:45:14 - 00:04:48:14
Myron Mann
And, you know, you're in a sort of a comfort food.

00:04:48:16 - 00:05:06:11
Daniel Franco
This Sunday at your house. Yeah, absolutely. In what's in the Mayo. Beautiful. Yeah. So normally we would start off with a bit of context around your your early years and obviously you have just heard about Woodstock. But yeah, it'd be great to sort of understand you are born in the U.S.. Whereabouts?

00:05:06:27 - 00:05:08:06
Myron Mann
I was born in North Carolina.

00:05:08:06 - 00:05:09:00
Daniel Franco
North Carolina.

00:05:09:00 - 00:05:17:12
Myron Mann
I lived there for ten days when my mother left the hospital, relocated to Virginia, which is the next state up on the East Coast. So and I grew up there.

00:05:17:15 - 00:05:22:09
Daniel Franco
So provide some context. What does the early life of married man look like in the US?

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Myron Mann
Look, it was probably, you know, best childhood you could ever describe. I grew up in a small town of about 2500 people, the foothills of the mountains, uh, you know, not that far from the Shenandoah Valley. Yeah. So, uh, you know, it was pretty normal day. Yeah. I'd leave the house, come home by dark. My mother had no idea where I was.

00:05:50:21 - 00:05:53:10
Myron Mann
You know, those sort of things. There were no. No phones. No.

00:05:53:21 - 00:05:54:15
Daniel Franco
If she needed me.

00:05:54:26 - 00:06:00:02
Myron Mann
She would put the word out. Somebody wouldn't somebody. But you knew everybody in town, basically. So it was.

00:06:00:11 - 00:06:01:08
Daniel Franco
It was the days.

00:06:01:08 - 00:06:03:27
Myron Mann
That was pretty, pretty enjoyable days growing up.

00:06:04:27 - 00:06:18:09
Daniel Franco
And so you went through school went through uni. Tell us the story of your growing up and I do believe that you went to the US Army as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. So can you tell us that story of how you and why you decided to enlist?

00:06:18:23 - 00:06:37:24
Myron Mann
Sure. Yeah. High schools was fairly straightforward, you know, played all different types of sports. Basketball was my favorite sport. I tried to think I could play basketball when I got to uni, and I think I got out there looking down the first day and there was no one. It was anywhere near my size.

00:06:37:24 - 00:06:39:17
Daniel Franco
I just looked at everyone.

00:06:40:23 - 00:06:44:19
Myron Mann
And I thought, well, this is this is probably not going to work that long, but.

00:06:45:02 - 00:06:47:09
Daniel Franco
Well, what position? Point guard I was point guard.

00:06:47:09 - 00:07:13:10
Myron Mann
Yeah, but that was you know, it was probably ambitious for me to think I could go much further than that. And look, I went to, went to uni, started out I was going to do a degree in, in pharmacy which was a two year program at uni and a three year program at the medical school decided not to do that in the second year, stayed on and did a degree in organic chemistry.

00:07:13:10 - 00:07:17:22
Myron Mann
And then I not because I really wanted to do something organic chemistry but just liked.

00:07:17:25 - 00:07:18:23
Daniel Franco
It and.

00:07:19:12 - 00:07:50:07
Myron Mann
And you know, had a had a fantastic time. In fact, probably was the early introduction to the real science of leadership. My it was the president of my social fraternity. And as the president during the summer holidays, I attended leadership school at Northwestern University in Chicago for about three weeks during the summer. So as an introduction to a little bit around what is leadership and it probably stuck with me since then.

00:07:50:08 - 00:07:53:04
Daniel Franco
Yeah, very good army. Army. Yeah.

00:07:55:00 - 00:07:55:29
Myron Mann
I was.

00:07:56:07 - 00:07:57:28
Daniel Franco
So was it after the university.

00:07:57:28 - 00:08:01:06
Myron Mann
So finished university. So you had a deferment while you were.

00:08:01:06 - 00:08:06:06
Daniel Franco
Yeah. So Woodstock was in among when you were at university. That was in the university. So university.

00:08:06:11 - 00:08:13:09
Myron Mann
So the US changed its draft system to a lottery system. Okay.

00:08:13:23 - 00:08:17:28
Daniel Franco
So this is around because it was around when Vietnam was on. Yeah, it was, it.

00:08:17:28 - 00:08:38:09
Myron Mann
Was right in the middle of Vietnam. And so the system was they drew out birthdates in their birthday and my my number was still remembered today. It was number 54. And I think the the the the thought rule every year they sort of said this is how far down we'll probably get. I think they said that you will get to about 180.

00:08:38:09 - 00:08:48:23
Myron Mann
So I thought, well, rather than be drafted in somebody else, determined, where were I go, why don't I enlist and try to determine where I go, go myself. So yeah. So that was the.

00:08:49:06 - 00:08:50:09
Daniel Franco
And you're in the if there was no.

00:08:50:09 - 00:08:51:19
Myron Mann
There was no getting around it.

00:08:51:23 - 00:08:54:10
Daniel Franco
Yeah, sure. Did you did you serve in.

00:08:54:20 - 00:09:17:03
Myron Mann
Not in no. I never went out of the state. So I went through all the active duty training in the infantry and then wound up back in the reserves. It was just about the time I got to the West Coast, which is where they would send troops to Vietnam from. Dixon started pulling troops back out of Vietnam about that point.

00:09:17:03 - 00:09:20:09
Myron Mann
So, you know, lucky. Yeah, you never to go.

00:09:21:12 - 00:09:22:28
Daniel Franco
So you're in there for six years.

00:09:22:28 - 00:09:26:01
Myron Mann
Six years. So two years on active duty and four years in the reserves.

00:09:26:01 - 00:09:32:10
Daniel Franco
In the reserves and just decided to leave because or didn't see. So I never.

00:09:32:10 - 00:09:39:24
Myron Mann
Wanted to I never wanted to make it. It was it was just to fulfill the obligation.

00:09:40:19 - 00:10:02:26
Daniel Franco
Do you look back now at your time in the Army and the Reserves and think, oh, yeah, that actually set me up for life, my way of thinking, the discipline that I learned, something that I took away from one of the generals or the majors or whoever was in charge of you. Does that, um, is there anything that sort of sticks to mind for you in that space?

00:10:03:18 - 00:10:30:17
Myron Mann
You know, I actually think the, uh, is I actually think the army would be good for everyone. Yeah, not so much around the thought of fighting or anything like that. But the what you learn, you learn independence, you learn anything, you learn self-discipline. You learn to to structure your day. You learn to structure yourself.

00:10:30:17 - 00:10:54:25
Myron Mann
You learn to manage yourself. And it probably is one of the thing that sticks out in my mind the most. It sounds strange because it didn't come from a general or anyone. It came from the guy who slept in the bed next to me in the first barracks that was in a basic training. And I asked him why he joined the army, and he said, Well, the judge told me I could join the army or I could go to jail for life.

00:10:55:00 - 00:11:02:29
Myron Mann
And I said, Well, what did you do? And he said, Well, they tried to say, I'd say I murdered a guy, but I didn't anyway. So here I got this guy sleeping next.

00:11:04:00 - 00:11:04:06
Daniel Franco
To.

00:11:04:15 - 00:11:26:02
Myron Mann
The army, and I noticed it when we were doing the training that he was really, really struggling with how to read a map. And so I actually taught him how to read a map, and it was sort of a, you know, a moment where I realized, you know, yeah, we came from very different backgrounds and I wound up in the Army for completely different reasons.

00:11:27:17 - 00:11:33:06
Myron Mann
But he was forever thankful, you know, because it helped him get through his, his basic training.

00:11:33:06 - 00:11:59:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah, yeah. I love that story. Yeah, I, I, whether it's the army or I think you can apply the same methodology to sport when you're playing in a team. I remember growing up Dan and Lee playing for Henley Sharks Football Club, and at the time that was and possibly still is, there was a lot of housing trust in that area, low socio economic area.

00:11:59:18 - 00:12:21:27
Daniel Franco
And the different the different types of people, young men that were in my football team, we were in all different walks of life going through different you know, there were fathers and mothers that were alcoholic drug addicts versus the affluent, right? So it was just this concoction of young men coming together but playing for the same thing.

00:12:22:28 - 00:12:45:08
Daniel Franco
One coach telling us, this is our game plan, this is our strategy, this is our ultimate goal. And then working too together to try to achieve that goal and utilizing all the different personalities. And I just think it's I actually just think it's a beautiful thing. I've pushed my my children into teams for basketball. They play as well for that very reason.

00:12:45:08 - 00:12:48:14
Daniel Franco
I just I just think they add so much value to someone's life.

00:12:48:18 - 00:12:56:03
Myron Mann
Yeah, I think it does. And the army was just one big team. Yeah, yeah. They just had one way of doing it. Yeah. And you had no option but to do it.

00:12:56:03 - 00:13:06:22
Daniel Franco
Well, yeah. Well, there's a little bit more riding on it when you are in the army. And you do. Yeah. When you are serving. I mean it is about life now isn't it, as opposed to just winning your game.

00:13:06:22 - 00:13:08:03
Myron Mann
Very much so. Yeah.

00:13:09:04 - 00:13:14:11
Daniel Franco
So let's talk about leaving the Army with where to where does Myron go from here?

00:13:15:13 - 00:13:39:15
Myron Mann
Well, I actually had a job offer before I went in the army, which they put on hold, which was not unusual in the U.S.. Most companies were, uh, very responsible and said, well, if you go into the army to serve, you will put the job offer on hold. And when you go back, uh, if you, if you want it, well, we'll make it.

00:13:39:15 - 00:13:41:29
Daniel Franco
About doing you bit of the country. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:42:02 - 00:13:50:08
Myron Mann
So I went to work for a Fortune 500 textile company just as a management trainee. Yeah.

00:13:50:29 - 00:13:53:17
Daniel Franco
I was the company name and I still around these days.

00:13:53:25 - 00:14:06:01
Myron Mann
They're no longer. Well they're offshoots of it around there. Yeah. It was called Burlington Industries turn turnover was about 3 billion. Yeah. Well at that time so it was big, big time. Big. Yeah. Yeah. International company at that.

00:14:06:01 - 00:14:06:18
Daniel Franco
Time was pretty.

00:14:06:18 - 00:14:43:09
Myron Mann
Neat. Yeah. 30, 35,000 employees across the world. So you were just, you know, one of many I don't know. They probably hired four or 500 management trainees a year in that time, would filter those out. Some went forward with the company, some went the other direction. But it was a very structured training program. Uh, everything from lessons in how to dress properly to yeah, well, you know, it's, you know, when you're attending dinners, this is how you do it, this is what you do.

00:14:43:14 - 00:14:47:11
Myron Mann
So it was a, you know, to financial management, to anything to do.

00:14:47:11 - 00:14:49:00
Daniel Franco
But we're building young professionals.

00:14:49:00 - 00:14:51:11
Myron Mann
Absolutely doing that. That was what it was about. So, you know, for.

00:14:51:11 - 00:14:51:26
Daniel Franco
Me, you.

00:14:51:26 - 00:14:53:08
Myron Mann
Couldn't wound up in a better place.

00:14:53:08 - 00:15:07:19
Daniel Franco
Yeah, that's amazing. So if you go from the army, which teaches discipline and resilience and and self-improvement and all the above to a Fortune 500 is then adding to those layers. So you've got a pretty good foundation at this point. Well, you do. Yeah.

00:15:07:19 - 00:15:38:00
Myron Mann
You know, I remember one of the guys that I worked for who was one of the vice presidents of manufacturing at the time. Because I'm because of my science degree, I was sort of push that direction towards manufacturing. And in, in those days we wrote memos as opposed to emails. Yeah, but the same concept applies. And he said to me, he said, if you want me to, to read what you're writing to me and you want me to act on something, then I want you to say it in the first two sentences.

00:15:38:00 - 00:15:50:02
Myron Mann
I don't want to have to read the entire page. And from he said, It's like being a journalist. If you don't grab my attention either by the headline or the first sentence I probably won't get there. Yeah. So it was a lesson really in.

00:15:50:13 - 00:15:52:03
Daniel Franco
Mitigation, education?

00:15:52:11 - 00:15:56:03
Myron Mann
Yeah. We don't have a lot of time to sort of, you know, give me a lot of context.

00:15:56:03 - 00:16:02:13
Daniel Franco
Still use that philosophy today. Do you in your emails to the team or to the wider company?

00:16:03:20 - 00:16:04:21
Myron Mann
Probably to the team.

00:16:04:21 - 00:16:05:17
Daniel Franco
I probably.

00:16:05:17 - 00:16:06:26
Myron Mann
Do. If I'm if I'm.

00:16:06:26 - 00:16:08:00
Daniel Franco
Communicating with.

00:16:08:10 - 00:16:15:01
Myron Mann
The board or externally, I'll probably have to put a little more context straight forward. Yeah.

00:16:15:28 - 00:16:19:28
Daniel Franco
Do you do you grow through the through the company, this.

00:16:19:28 - 00:16:33:17
Myron Mann
Idea and I, I don't remember exactly how many times I relocated, but I counted at one point, I think before I came to Australia, that I had lived in 16 houses and had moved out many times.

00:16:33:23 - 00:16:35:10
Daniel Franco
For that because the company.

00:16:35:10 - 00:16:57:11
Myron Mann
Yeah, basically you were, you were offered lots of opportunity wherever jobs came up, they would would try to keep you moving. I think that was part of the, uh, the strategy in retaining talent was to keep challenging and keep putting them in bigger jobs and keep move, which meant generally relocating. But they had a very generous relocation policy.

00:16:57:11 - 00:17:09:10
Myron Mann
It wasn't hard to say, yeah, yes. To to relocate. It was just you just didn't talk. You didn't have any route start down. Yeah, but I wasn't working in my hometown anyway, so I was moving. Didn't really make.

00:17:09:14 - 00:17:10:28
Daniel Franco
Did you have family and anything. I did.

00:17:10:28 - 00:17:19:25
Myron Mann
I yeah. I had a my wife and I would were moving around. I got married pretty soon after we started. Started. Yeah.

00:17:19:25 - 00:17:29:07
Daniel Franco
Very good. Yeah. The, the moving. So it was the moving always tied to promotion or is that how you sort of generally moved out, generally moved up.

00:17:29:08 - 00:17:35:25
Myron Mann
Part of it was was tied to a promotion or a or bigger role of some some sort. Yeah.

00:17:37:05 - 00:17:56:12
Daniel Franco
The the way of management back then would have been slightly different. And what you would have learned back then it would have changed a lot these days is there, is there anything that still holds true as you if you remember from from all those learnings from a Fortune 500 back in those days?

00:17:56:12 - 00:18:22:06
Myron Mann
Um, yeah, I, I, I think you're coming along. You learn to accept the fact that you could never be ready. Yeah, you had to take the opportunity when when it was offered. So at 29, I think I had something like 1200 people under me. Yeah. Wow. So, uh, it was pretty quick. Yeah. And I wouldn't have said I was really.

00:18:22:06 - 00:18:39:17
Myron Mann
I was really learning on the job. Yeah. Uh, and I think, you know, that's, there are a lot of, you know, global companies today, successful companies that, that do challenge their employees. And I think I would just cite anyone who might be listening, you know, if the opportunity comes, grab it.

00:18:39:20 - 00:18:41:25
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Step into the ambiguity.

00:18:41:25 - 00:18:42:15
Myron Mann
Absolutely.

00:18:42:18 - 00:19:10:03
Daniel Franco
Trust yourself. Did you 29 years old running 1200 people, do you was there anything that sticks out in your mind at that point? I mean, that would be an overwhelming responsibility for someone of that age. And I'm not saying that you weren't equipped, but what was it about you that they saw that they thought, yeah, this is someone that could do it?

00:19:10:03 - 00:19:16:15
Daniel Franco
Or was it so for lack of a better way of explaining it, was it you're in the right place at the right time, therefore, you know.

00:19:17:26 - 00:19:47:20
Myron Mann
There's always probably some of that. Yeah. I think also most people who get those opportunities probably have someone in the background who's sort of sponsoring them. Yeah. And you know, in a way and I think I had a, a fairly early mentor in the training part of it who probably recognized that I did have leadership potential and management potential in and probably pushed to get get me that opportunity.

00:19:47:20 - 00:20:03:28
Myron Mann
Yeah. On a number of number of those times. So yeah I think you know, it, it happens generally that someone has an influence and they influence other people. Yeah. And if you get the opportunity and you're successful then then you're pretty. Yeah. On your way. Yeah.

00:20:05:01 - 00:20:11:04
Daniel Franco
So advice in that is stay passionate, stay true, do what you say you're going to do. Is that the.

00:20:11:29 - 00:20:28:26
Myron Mann
Yeah. I mean I, you know, I will probably talk about it a little bit later on. You know, I have a one sort of over overriding sort of, um, view about managing and leading and it really comes down to, to managing expectations.

00:20:28:26 - 00:20:29:11
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I.

00:20:30:09 - 00:20:40:20
Myron Mann
Whether that's in a relationship or whether it's in business or whatever it might be in if, if, if you're not on the same page with everyone, then somebody is going to get disappointed.

00:20:40:24 - 00:20:43:22
Daniel Franco
Yeah. And just being clear about that, isn't it.

00:20:43:25 - 00:20:44:28
Myron Mann
Just the clarity around.

00:20:45:13 - 00:20:59:07
Daniel Franco
We will go into that as we get through. So what happens next? When did you grow into this position and decide what point do you come to Australia? And I think I read somewhere that you've lived in three different countries. Did you move country? Was all those moves within the US.

00:20:59:07 - 00:21:23:25
Myron Mann
All that was in the U.S.? I did do a little bit of work for the company in Italy for a while, mainly just a project which ultimately sort of got me to Australia, you know, in a funny sort of way. Yeah, I left that company and went with another Fortune 500 company who was trying to start up a new division.

00:21:23:25 - 00:21:45:09
Myron Mann
So I gained some experience in a, in another company which was just always helpful. I think, you know, I think if you stay in the same position for a long, long time used to be people work had an entire career in it one one sort of organization these days I think people would benefit by getting experience elsewhere.

00:21:46:07 - 00:22:03:28
Myron Mann
So I was with I moved in with this other company and I was continually being called about, you know, job opportunity in Australia and I headhunter out of New York and in those days headhunters actually did actually recruit. They didn't actually just take applications.

00:22:03:28 - 00:22:05:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah. And I had.

00:22:05:24 - 00:22:22:07
Myron Mann
Some exposure to to them through, through the consulting work I'd done in Italy because they had been part of that project team. Okay. So that's how they got to know me and I got to know them. And they would call in and say, Look, I'm not even sure I even know where Australia is, so I have to actually look it up.

00:22:22:09 - 00:22:26:13
Myron Mann
Yeah, well I mean I kind of knew from, you know you'd heard.

00:22:26:13 - 00:22:29:13
Daniel Franco
Of the country. Yeah. But I mean, you know, it's the.

00:22:29:22 - 00:22:48:18
Myron Mann
It's funny when you live and grow up in the U.S., I mean, it's so big and so insular. And you read all the time about most people don't even have a passport. Most people in the US don't wake up worried about what's going on in the rest of the world, what's the exchange rate or any of those sorts of things, because it doesn't actually affect their life that much.

00:22:48:18 - 00:23:00:03
Myron Mann
Yeah. So it's, it's very different. And living in outside of the U.S., I found a new perspective on what goes on in the U.S. changes a great deal to living outside it.

00:23:00:07 - 00:23:08:27
Daniel Franco
What do you think that is? Is it just the amount of people I mean, these other countries with more people, but is there what is the patriotic

00:23:09:04 - 00:23:30:02
Myron Mann
Outside of the big cities? Yeah, um, I think, you know, it's people wake up, they go to work, you know, they, they're not really in their minds, they're not significantly influenced by what's going on in the rest of the world. If you're living in the big cities, you're probably more in touch with the news. There's probably a little more in your face.

00:23:30:02 - 00:23:46:04
Myron Mann
And yeah, probably have some maybe, maybe some involvement somewhere that you have some more knowledge about it than others. But if you if you, you know, a cattle farmer in Kansas and you wake up and go, you're probably not too worried about what's going on in the rest.

00:23:46:04 - 00:24:01:09
Daniel Franco
Of the world. Look, you see it? I mean, with the world of social media these days as these Tik Tok videos going around of some people who they're interviewing in the some of them will say, where do you think Argentina is? And one of them, one of them we're going I don't know, is that in Indiana, like, they have no idea.

00:24:01:14 - 00:24:07:10
Daniel Franco
And their first thought is never outside. Yeah, correct. It's always inside. Yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah.

00:24:07:10 - 00:24:08:25
Myron Mann
So what happened to get to Australia?

00:24:09:18 - 00:24:10:01
Daniel Franco
Finally.

00:24:10:13 - 00:24:37:15
Myron Mann
One day I said, okay, you know, what's the job? What are we talking about? And they said, Well, worst case is you'll go to an interview and you'll you'll have a two week trip to Australia. And so anyway I, I said okay I'll Illinois, I came to Australia and I met with the owners of the business and we flew around Australia and visited all of the mini sites that they had in the business.

00:24:37:15 - 00:24:41:17
Myron Mann
It was a reasonable sized business turned over about $500 million.

00:24:41:23 - 00:24:45:15
Daniel Franco
And what was your thoughts of Australia coming in? Oh, I thought it was fantastic.

00:24:45:15 - 00:25:10:12
Myron Mann
I absolutely loved it. I mean, but you know, it stayed in Double Bay and Sydney and then why wouldn't you love it? But flying around the countryside was really interesting for me and meeting all the people and talking to people in various parts of the business and this was a business that had actually had a very good underlying business, you know, and it but it was had substantial debt.

00:25:10:15 - 00:25:30:03
Myron Mann
Yeah. And they had had unfortunately had to, uh, aboard a, uh, an IPO and when the stock market crashed they traded on for a few years beyond that. And then interest rates started to really go up, you know, in the nineties. Mm hmm. And they just got to the point where they had to do something.

00:25:30:03 - 00:25:32:05
Daniel Franco
So that's when you got to go.

00:25:32:05 - 00:25:32:25
Myron Mann
That's where I stopped.

00:25:32:29 - 00:25:37:18
Daniel Franco
At what point was this the point that you started becoming the expert in turning around businesses or.

00:25:37:18 - 00:25:40:02
Myron Mann
Had been doing it in divisions of some of.

00:25:40:02 - 00:25:40:13
Daniel Franco
These other.

00:25:40:13 - 00:25:50:05
Myron Mann
Companies? And I think that's why this headhunting company that I was with, because that was the project we had it it like they said, this guy's got experience in how to how to redesign.

00:25:50:22 - 00:26:01:26
Daniel Franco
Kudos for them for looking outside of Australia or were they already outside of Australia like the company? So the company that you worked with initially, the recruitment company, where were they based? They were based.

00:26:01:26 - 00:26:02:12
Myron Mann
Out of New York.

00:26:02:12 - 00:26:06:23
Daniel Franco
They were based in New York. Okay. So they had heard of this opportunity and they were working.

00:26:07:00 - 00:26:23:14
Myron Mann
They had an office in in Australia and they were working in the UK, had also been involved in some of the early Labor government policies around textile, clothing and footwear. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:23:21 - 00:26:27:13
Daniel Franco
And so this company is, is the one that ends up becoming Sheridan.

00:26:27:19 - 00:26:28:22
Myron Mann
Well you don't share it, you.

00:26:28:22 - 00:26:31:14
Daniel Franco
Don't share the company.

00:26:31:14 - 00:26:39:03
Myron Mann
Part of the solution when we, when we finally got to a solution for it was it was to to sell.

00:26:39:03 - 00:26:41:23
Daniel Franco
Sheridan Yeah. Okay. Very good.

00:26:41:23 - 00:26:43:03
Myron Mann
And restructure the rest of it.

00:26:43:10 - 00:26:54:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah. It's the only tiles that I had in my house for a long time was the sheridan and my wife subsist. It is still the best. Yeah, they are very good.

00:26:54:02 - 00:26:56:08
Myron Mann
And they had that reputation on a worldwide basis.

00:26:56:08 - 00:27:02:27
Daniel Franco
Yeah. So you've, you've moved to Australia. Where did you set up in Sydney? Brought the family over everything. Yep.

00:27:03:02 - 00:27:04:00
Myron Mann
Came over and.

00:27:06:21 - 00:27:07:24
Daniel Franco
Children at this point.

00:27:08:12 - 00:27:25:27
Myron Mann
Yeah. One son, one son. And uh, we lived on the North shore of Sydney. Yeah. In St Ives. Uh, so office was in Surry Hills. Yeah. You know, a little bit of a drive and commute every day. Yeah, it wasn't too bad.

00:27:26:05 - 00:27:30:22
Daniel Franco
Uh, and so what did you do? What was your job? What was the main role, too? Well, the.

00:27:30:22 - 00:27:54:09
Myron Mann
main role It was funny because I, The first time I sat down with the board, you know, and in the interviewing process, I said, I'm really an operational person. You know, you've got 22 different leaders in this leading syndicate who want $100 million rebate. They were putting pressure on the company. So something had happened. And I said that's that's not my expertise.

00:27:54:09 - 00:28:13:20
Myron Mann
It's not what I do or what I have done, you know. But so we we agreed on how we would manage that. And I brought in a CFO that, you know, had a lot of experience in that area. But so together we partnered and managed all those banks at the same time, we were restructuring all the operations. So yeah.

00:28:13:20 - 00:28:14:08
Daniel Franco
Wow. Yeah.

00:28:14:08 - 00:28:37:26
Myron Mann
So it was a, it was a a lot involved. We had worldwide operations, uh, so we had subsidiary companies in the US, in the UK, in Japan and New Zealand. And, you know, we so had probably for three or four years there was on a plane every eight weeks. Yeah, we went around the world. Uh, Qantas loved me.

00:28:37:26 - 00:28:43:06
Daniel Franco
Yeah, but, uh, but a lot of. And I'm sure my.

00:28:43:06 - 00:28:43:17
Myron Mann
Family.

00:28:43:17 - 00:28:46:12
Daniel Franco
Did. Yeah, yeah. A lot of time away.

00:28:46:16 - 00:28:47:10
Myron Mann
Yeah.

00:28:47:10 - 00:29:11:20
Daniel Franco
The, the, the, the idea of turning a company around, right? It's something that, uh, faced a lot of CEOs or leaders these days. And is there a sort of structure or is there a way in which you go about it? You know, you walk into a company with the idea of of trying to make it more profitable. What what does that look like to you?

00:29:11:21 - 00:29:15:19
Daniel Franco
How do you start that process?

00:29:15:19 - 00:29:47:00
Myron Mann
Um, you start the process by listening. Mm hmm. I think I've developed a knack of of listening to what people are saying who generally know what's wrong. Mm hmm. Sometimes you. You have to sort of cut through some of the vested interest in the conversation. But, yeah, I think if you spend enough time listening to the people there, they'll go out.

00:29:47:00 - 00:30:00:17
Myron Mann
And it does. I think when I got to Australia I spent probably the first week in the office getting to know everyone. In the next two weeks I spent talking to customers. Over the next two weeks I've been talking to suppliers.

00:30:00:24 - 00:30:06:11
Daniel Franco
It's just good quality, stakeholder engagement. It's not anything new. Yeah.

00:30:07:15 - 00:30:18:18
Myron Mann
And then and then I think, you know, there's the one rule I would say if you're looking at turning around something and in all the turnarounds that I've done, they haven't all been financial.

00:30:18:20 - 00:30:19:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah, it could.

00:30:19:18 - 00:30:22:27
Myron Mann
Have been the fact that the company has lost its way or, you know, it's.

00:30:23:08 - 00:30:24:02
Daniel Franco
Culturally or.

00:30:24:03 - 00:30:53:08
Myron Mann
Culturally or the brand hasn't in the brand started to drift, you know, one way or the other, that sort of thing. So it's not always financial financials. The generally the more difficult it's hard to do things if you don't have cash. But yeah, you know, but the one thing that you really have to focus on is the fact that it's highly unlikely or this is my opinion, it's highly unlikely that doing what you're doing better is going to actually change anything.

00:30:53:08 - 00:31:13:18
Myron Mann
And so if you can take that lesson, then it's pretty much how the the really good private equity companies work is they they come in and they don't really look at the business and say, well, we can run this better than the last group did because they probably can't necessarily. That's not their expertise. What they can do is they can make some significant step change in the business model.

00:31:14:12 - 00:31:37:27
Myron Mann
Yeah, that's where the money might come. But you don't always have to have money to make that step change. So it's, it's really identifying how you can actually make some sort of paradigm shift, you know, with the with the, with the business. Yeah. I am not a proponent of the fact that we will just manage it better than the last lot because I don't think that normally leads to too much success.

00:31:38:09 - 00:32:00:20
Daniel Franco
Yeah, because generally the people in leadership roles are there for a reason because they know how to run a business. So you think on the culture side of things though, I mean, with Synergy IQ, we work a lot in this space. Do you think that you can continue doing the same things if the culture is not where it needs to be?

00:32:00:20 - 00:32:21:27
Daniel Franco
If it's toxic work by just merely tweaking and improving, obviously it takes a long time to do that. Do you think that could provide benefit? Are you saying this paradigm shift is bang, let's cut it. Let's put a new model in new service, new offering, new product, whatever it might be. Do you think it has to be that big paradigm shift?

00:32:21:27 - 00:32:26:08
Myron Mann
Um, I guess it's how much time you have to work with it.

00:32:26:14 - 00:32:29:28
Daniel Franco
Yeah. The see columnist of the.

00:32:30:13 - 00:33:01:12
Myron Mann
Culture is so critical. Yeah, it's I guess part of the question around the culture is if it is toxic, how did it get there? Did it get there by virtue of the people that are still in the organization? Or is it historical and yet it still hasn't had time to to overcome it. And you have to find ways to to improve that culture.

00:33:01:20 - 00:33:19:09
Myron Mann
You know, it's, uh, it the single biggest way is generally starting to communicate with people throughout the organization. And sometimes that means spend a lot of time walking around talking to people. Yeah. Getting them to understand where the business is going.

00:33:19:09 - 00:33:41:12
Daniel Franco
Do you place in these turnarounds? And obviously, I mean, cultures, this is going to have a major impact on the culture of an organization. Do you look at your leadership team? Is that the first thing that you look at and go, The quality of my leadership team is not where I need this company to be in order to turn it around.

00:33:41:22 - 00:33:49:06
Daniel Franco
So you bring in externals or do you educate or is it a bit of both?

00:33:49:06 - 00:34:15:04
Myron Mann
Um, I think one of the things you have to do right up front is you have to really and I guess Simon Sinek goes on about, you know, determining the why. Yeah, but really that's just what's your purpose, why you do it, why are we doing what we doing, whether it's a not for profit or a for profit organization.

00:34:15:04 - 00:34:42:17
Myron Mann
Yeah. And does a leadership team actually understand that? Yeah. You know, this is why we're here and that everything we do actually should support that purpose or something. Some company color the mission statement. Yeah, that sort of thing. And then I think you also have to examine what what does this leadership team, what are the real beliefs that they have?

00:34:42:17 - 00:35:06:00
Myron Mann
And if you can extract that out of them, then you can start to determine whether or not the leadership team is going to have to change or is it just does it just need guidance to get it to where it needs to be? It's probably rare in a in a situation where the leadership team doesn't change.

00:35:06:00 - 00:35:20:15
Myron Mann
Sometimes voluntarily, people decide, yep, I don't want to be part of this. It's not the way how it used to be. Therefore I'm not as comfortable, whatever it might be that affords you an opportunity to to make those changes. Sometimes you just have to make that hard, hard decision. Yeah.

00:35:21:19 - 00:35:47:12
Daniel Franco
I think a new leader coming in who's been headhunted to come in to turn things around, there's almost an expectation that the leadership of the organization might change in that, isn't there? There if they're if a great CEO has retired and a new CEO comes in, then there's probably less need for some change. There will still probably be some, but there's probably less need for that change.

00:35:47:12 - 00:36:02:07
Daniel Franco
Yes, I see your point. Do you go from here? So you're working and then you end up this parent company owned, shared, and you come in, you turn around. Did you fix it? Did it work?

00:36:02:07 - 00:36:12:18
Myron Mann
Well, we did so in the middle of that, there's a bit of a life change model. And I wound up my marriage broke up. Yep. And yeah. had a divorce.

00:36:12:18 - 00:36:19:16
Daniel Franco
Had more than one just had still had the one child at that time.

00:36:19:16 - 00:36:23:23
Myron Mann
So that was, you know, you know, never easy.

00:36:23:23 - 00:36:31:00
Daniel Franco
No, never leaving. Did you think looking back, that it's the excess traveling.

00:36:32:00 - 00:36:48:21
Myron Mann
Would have all influenced you. Yeah. The amount of time spent in, you know, maybe we'll talk about a little bit later though the sort of, you know, second half of life, how it can differ from the first time. Yeah, I'm reading a book now. That's all about that. But what's.

00:36:48:21 - 00:36:48:29
Daniel Franco
The book.

00:36:49:17 - 00:37:15:09
Myron Mann
Is called Strength from from strength to strength. Yeah. Yeah. It's written by, uh, a professor at Harvard Business School and the Harvard Kennedy School, which is the government school. Yeah. And I actually did a course under him this year and, we actually struck up a relationship in a brilliant email and talking. Excellent. And and it's a fabulous book.

00:37:15:10 - 00:37:20:28
Myron Mann
Yeah. You don't have time to read it. It is a podcast with Simon Sinek where they they summarize the book.

00:37:20:28 - 00:37:22:25
Daniel Franco
Brilliant. So from strength to strength.

00:37:22:25 - 00:37:42:27
Myron Mann
Yeah. Arthur Brooks is his name. Author Brooks. Yeah. So the tagline is finding success, happiness and true purpose in the second half of life. So if you're over 40 I would say you should read this. Yeah. It really there's scientific evidence about how the brain changes.

00:37:43:04 - 00:37:43:15
Daniel Franco
Yes.

00:37:44:07 - 00:37:45:03
Myron Mann
From the early.

00:37:45:03 - 00:37:47:12
Daniel Franco
Stages to the later stages, you that what.

00:37:47:12 - 00:37:49:03
Myron Mann
Brings you know happiness.

00:37:50:01 - 00:38:16:05
Daniel Franco
Very good. I often ask the question on this podcast to CEOs and the leaders and anyone who's out there sort of trying to realize the visions is how do you manage the loving relationships you have whilst trying to pursue your visions? It's possibly one of the number one things that I struggle with. One of my core values.

00:38:16:05 - 00:38:16:13
Myron Mann
Here.

00:38:17:00 - 00:38:36:20
Daniel Franco
Is growth, but also one of my other core values is family. And so it I just have this intersection that I'm constantly faced with and just do not know how to manage that in the way in which I would I would like to and I don't know that there is a one size fits all, but it's. Yeah.

00:38:36:27 - 00:38:38:03
Daniel Franco
What is your thoughts on that?

00:38:39:17 - 00:39:02:19
Myron Mann
Well I'm I'm very fortunate and I met a lovely lady and I'm married now and with two other children, beautiful with two daughters. And she's probably been the biggest influence in my life other than probably my parents in the early stages. I mean, the she has an uncanny knack for communication.

00:39:02:25 - 00:39:06:14
Daniel Franco
And I have had emails from her. I already see that. Yes.

00:39:08:06 - 00:39:47:14
Myron Mann
And so and is you know, taught me a lot. Yeah, right. You know, and we actually became really good friends for a long time before we got married. And so that probably plays into the relationship as well. Yeah. And, and she's been the real driver of this concept of, of expectation. If I have an expectation of you, then you go outside of that expectation and there's going to be a disappointment on my behalf or vice versa, whether it's your kids or your wife.

00:39:47:14 - 00:40:18:07
Myron Mann
So if you can actually sit down and have a plan and you both know, you know, this is what each other's, you know, wants to achieve. And you can do it together and you can support each other in it. And it's just a whole lot easier to achieve that balance. And I think I think the other thing is that if I'm just lucky in the fact that that if something goes wrong in my life, the first person I'm going to pick up and call is her.

00:40:18:09 - 00:40:24:28
Myron Mann
Yeah. You know, where other people might pick up and call their mate? Yeah, it's the other way around for me. Yeah, yeah.

00:40:25:06 - 00:40:51:12
Daniel Franco
I love that. I love the expectation thing. I have. I have this debate, I wouldn't call argument. I have this debate many a time with a lot of people actually. And it's more around but it is around expectations where people may have I'm not just saying my wife, but it might be my parents, it might be my sister, it could be anyone, my children, children.

00:40:52:18 - 00:41:10:01
Daniel Franco
They have these expectations of me as a father, a brother, a son, a husband, you name it. And my response to them is, well, that's your expectation of me. I have my own expectations of myself.

00:41:10:02 - 00:41:11:05
Myron Mann
Yeah.

00:41:11:05 - 00:41:35:05
Daniel Franco
So we have different perspectives on this and something that we we talk about a lot. with Synergy IQ when we're going through change. There is a framework of change in perspectives is one of those pieces in in that framework. And if you were to think of an intersection I talked about if you think of an intersection in a in the middle of the street and there is this car accident in the middle of the in the middle of the intersection.

00:41:35:18 - 00:41:57:25
Daniel Franco
And Myron you're standing on one corner and I'm on the opposite corner. And we see this car accident. We see the exact same car accident from two different perspectives, right? Yeah. You see the little black cat that ran across the road. And I see that gone the back in the back car on his phone, texting. None of us are wrong, but we both have different perspectives and I often treat that with we.

00:41:57:27 - 00:42:20:04
Daniel Franco
The relationships is. I think it's unfair for you to get angry at me or to judge me or whatever it might be with the expectations that you've created in your mind of what I should do. Therefore, the way we overcome that is exactly with what you said, which was clear communication and clear understanding of what we we are doing.

00:42:20:04 - 00:42:40:16
Myron Mann
And I don't think it's any different with your team here or your business partner if you're not on the same page in terms of expectations, then you'll wind up having that same sort of disappointment that happens. So I think when you're managing a team, it's like I have an executive team, I need to be really, really clear.

00:42:40:16 - 00:42:51:08
Myron Mann
And they need we need to spend whatever time. We need to make sure that we all understand that this is what is expected and this is what they expect of me. Yeah.

00:42:52:08 - 00:43:00:18
Daniel Franco
How often would you meet with your team and communicate those expectations? Is it daily, weekly, monthly? What does it look like for you or is it is it.

00:43:00:18 - 00:43:02:27
Myron Mann
Just most of my team I meet one on one.

00:43:02:27 - 00:43:03:23
Daniel Franco
Monthly. Yeah.

00:43:04:08 - 00:43:18:07
Myron Mann
I have two new execs and I meet fortnightly. Yeah. With I found that if you try to meet weekly there's not enough time gone by. That much has changed or much has happened. You know, you give them time and space to, you know, get things done.

00:43:18:10 - 00:43:35:22
Daniel Franco
To work on it. So is there a structure in which you would use to have to clearly communicate, you know, say executive meeting? What are the non-negotiables that happen within that meeting? How do you and obviously nothing confidential but from more of a structure. These are our initiatives. These are our KPIs.

00:43:36:00 - 00:43:37:01
Myron Mann
You talking about the one on one?

00:43:37:01 - 00:43:54:00
Daniel Franco
Yeah, the one on one. Because it's a really interesting fact that there's a lot of CEOs out there. There's a lot of leaders out there who don't have the regular meetings with their team. Right. It might be a a group team meeting or whatever it is, but it's not the one on one. And the one on one is where you can create those expectations, isn't it?

00:43:54:07 - 00:44:23:10
Myron Mann
Well, we have executive meetings and we have three executive meetings a month. Yeah. There's one week in the month where we don't, but the one on ones are less operational, they're more around what's working, what's not working? What support do you need for what? Let's talk about, you know, what's not working and why it’s not working. You know, how are you going with your balance in life?

00:44:23:10 - 00:44:45:03
Myron Mann
And, you know, are you still enthusiastic about what you're doing? You know, so it's not very operational. When we talk about the one on one, it's occasionally when there's a, you know, an employee issue or something that you might you might have to have that discussion, but we might be, you know, just, you know, quickly over that at any point.

00:44:45:03 - 00:44:51:25
Myron Mann
But the one on ones are a more about, you know, what can I do to to support you?

00:44:52:02 - 00:44:59:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I love that. And all right. So that's why I'm back. That's a rabbit hole that we went. Yeah. And so you had a life changing moment.

00:44:59:03 - 00:45:16:18
Myron Mann
Life changing moment. Remarried. Yeah. And now two daughters come kind of later, but this is all happening about the time that we are between. We were breaking this textile company into two parts and restructuring it. So.

00:45:18:00 - 00:45:19:05
Daniel Franco
So your role was.

00:45:19:15 - 00:45:51:01
Myron Mann
I was the CEO of the parent company. There was a GM of the Sheridan business, but it is it turned out I found the buyer for Sheridan, They happened to come out of the US and I knew them. Yeah. And so we, we partnered in that and it meant that I needed to go the shared in business but it was the, it was the biggest business of the group.

00:45:51:04 - 00:46:07:10
Myron Mann
Yeah. We sold off a couple of things and we restructured another part of it and you know, I, the, the banks all got their money banks. Yeah. So well done. I was feeling a bit like a hero and being treated like one. Yeah. And being offered lots of opportunities.

00:46:07:11 - 00:46:08:08
Daniel Franco
To go look at.

00:46:08:08 - 00:46:28:29
Myron Mann
Other things. So, but there was a lot of satisfaction in the fact that, that, that we were able to keep all of those businesses actually operating. Yeah. Even in an environment where, you know, tariffs and quotas were coming down and textiles was sort of going out. Yeah, the manufacturing was going out.

00:46:30:00 - 00:46:52:14
Daniel Franco
With all your experience in turnaround companies or turning around companies in whatever aspect, is there a common themes that you've seen? I mean, you've done this time and time again is a common themes. Yeah. Yep. This is the same thing that I saw in the last three companies. This is happening again. I think the question comes from the point of view of if you're noticing this sort of thing in your in your company, then it's time to act it.

00:46:52:14 - 00:47:00:25
Daniel Franco
Is there anything that that you would see as a trend?

00:47:00:25 - 00:47:31:16
Myron Mann
Yeah, most of the time there are some exceptions to it. There are some external influences. Sometimes it obviously just completely wipe out someone's business strategy. You. But I think the common thing that you find is, it's not generally just poor management. It what it really comes down to is not recognizing what's happening within the market and how you actually need to adapt to that.

00:47:33:00 - 00:47:54:02
Myron Mann
And it's this this whole science of adaptive leadership and management. Basically, it's if you'll find that most companies that get in trouble have waited too long to make a decision to do something, they're either risk adverse or so the.

00:47:54:02 - 00:47:56:00
Daniel Franco
Kodak moment right. Yeah you.

00:47:56:00 - 00:48:01:15
Myron Mann
Know or you know everybody else has moved manufacturing offshore and now you can't compete because you're.

00:48:01:19 - 00:48:02:04
Daniel Franco
There in a.

00:48:02:04 - 00:48:44:08
Myron Mann
Crisis. You can't your margins aren't good enough to support those prices or whatever it might be. And and you don't have the ability to to to grow because they now do. Yeah. And so it you generally find it people have delayed decisions, they haven't made those decisions and for whatever those reasons might be, um, or they haven't looked at whether or not, you know, maybe selling the business and, and, or doing some sort of a joint venture or merger or something like that, which might give them a bigger opportunity to actually turn around.

00:48:44:08 - 00:48:49:18
Myron Mann
What they're trying to do is quickly start to run out of money and all of a sudden that's when the panic sets in.

00:48:50:05 - 00:49:05:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah. So someone or a team of visionaries really will contribute to success further. So someone who's able to think outside the box. But like you said, this might be the shareholders. All these different things come into it. But you can.

00:49:05:18 - 00:49:06:19
Myron Mann
Name, you know, you.

00:49:06:20 - 00:49:06:27
Daniel Franco
Said.

00:49:06:27 - 00:49:08:02
Myron Mann
Kodak, but you can name a lot.

00:49:08:02 - 00:49:08:15
Daniel Franco
Of them. Yeah.

00:49:09:02 - 00:49:25:07
Myron Mann
Companies that just simply failed to recognize what was going on around them. Yeah. And they, they're just, we'll just keep doing what we're doing better. When, when in fact. Well, today the world changes so quickly, you know. Yeah. Change three times in a day.

00:49:25:16 - 00:49:46:17
Daniel Franco
Yeah, well, I think it's similar like if you, if you use the same thought process for looking at what the external market's doing and use manufacturing offsite as or overseas as an example, the same thing does apply to leadership. If you have a leaders who are running the business in a way like a dictatorship, it's like the old football coach.

00:49:46:17 - 00:49:48:09
Daniel Franco
The yelling doesn't work anymore.

00:49:48:10 - 00:49:48:21
Myron Mann
It does.

00:49:48:21 - 00:49:58:02
Daniel Franco
It's the leadership styles needs to change. We need to adapt. The younger generation are coming through. They have different expectations on how they should be treated completely. All the above.

00:49:58:03 - 00:50:00:06
Myron Mann
Yeah, I learn that every day with my two daughters.

00:50:00:07 - 00:50:11:02
Daniel Franco
So yeah, I have two daughters also and then learning the exact same thing. So when did the when did the move out of Sheridan. So you've in Sheridan, you're there for a few more years

00:50:11:02 - 00:50:24:10
Myron Mann
So in Sheridan we operate that business for about four and a half years and then sell to a private equity group. I then transition out over the next 18 months.

00:50:25:08 - 00:50:26:18
Daniel Franco
And into your own consulting.

00:50:26:22 - 00:50:46:00
Myron Mann
Into my own own consulting business. Yeah. And on a global basis. Yeah. So, um, but that point had really decided whether I wanted to do another one of these or not, but because.

00:50:46:00 - 00:50:46:16
Daniel Franco
It's hard work.

00:50:46:16 - 00:51:14:02
Myron Mann
But really enjoyed some of the things I was doing. I did a lot of work for, Waterford Wedgwood in in the UK. Yeah. And then there was a company that we bought later on was, was actually a competitor to Sheridan and I sort of was able while I was there, to sort of stay in touch with them and understand what was going on and knew that, knew the senior management of the owners and you know, just said, if you're ever interested or you need to listen, let's talk.

00:51:14:02 - 00:51:17:04
Myron Mann
So that's how that actually came about. Yeah, very good. Yeah.

00:51:17:22 - 00:51:21:11
Daniel Franco
And then worked with multiple international top companies.

00:51:21:14 - 00:51:36:13
Myron Mann
Work with any number of, you know, multinational companies and both you know, here the U.S.. Yeah, usually they they obviously had generally at some time back to Australia in some way.

00:51:36:14 - 00:51:40:07
Daniel Franco
What did that look like for you? Was it just people picking up the phone going generally?

00:51:40:12 - 00:52:11:25
Myron Mann
Generally it was either someone in my network was introducing me to them or yeah, um, or, you know, a relationship at a, at a bank or someone would say, you know, we involved with this company is struggling. Would you mind talking to this person? Yeah, I guess over time, a lot of times I would go in and do some advisory or.

00:52:12:04 - 00:52:19:21
Myron Mann
Yeah, that would often lead to becoming the CEO or or take you know.

00:52:19:23 - 00:52:21:11
Daniel Franco
This is this is the Bedford.

00:52:22:02 - 00:52:25:29
Myron Mann
Bedford and then in a couple of others prior to that, you know, so yeah.

00:52:26:29 - 00:52:35:24
Daniel Franco
So when does the Bedford world enter your life?

00:52:35:24 - 00:52:40:05
Myron Mann
Sort of mid-year in 2021.

00:52:40:15 - 00:52:47:23
Daniel Franco
2021, yeah. So a few years of sleep through then you've done this over and over again and you called into Bedford for the same reasons.

00:52:47:25 - 00:53:25:28
Myron Mann
Well, it started with a phone call again, Bedford. Bedford needs to have a look at some of its commercial operations. Would you mind having a conversation with the CEO? And so that's where it started. Mm hmm. Did some advisory work for 6 to 8 weeks. And then. So would you step in as the chief operating officer and run the commercial side and then sort of seven, eight months later, it was would you step into the to the CEO?

00:53:26:03 - 00:53:32:00
Myron Mann
Well, they went through it process. I stuck my hand up and was fortunate enough to. Yeah, yeah.

00:53:32:13 - 00:53:49:07
Daniel Franco
So why, why move away from the consulting back into CEO? Like it seems like you've done that a few times. What was it about the CEO role that always attracts you back?

00:53:49:07 - 00:54:20:18
Myron Mann
Well, in Bedford, I don't know that it was the CEO role that attracted me. Yeah. Basically to join them as the CEO, it was it probably gets explained in this book that I just told you about a little bit around the fact that there there is this sort of shift in your psyche and your the way your brain operates in the second half of life, you you really we really get more happiness out of mentoring and coaching in teaching and guiding in real those sorts of things.

00:54:20:18 - 00:54:42:16
Myron Mann
And I, I'd never work for a not for profit, even though not for profits. The size of Bedford really do have to run as a proper business. Right. There's a lot of money flows through the bank account. I never work for a not for profit, so there was a lot to learn about that. In in in the purpose of a not for profit is absolutely paramount.

00:54:42:16 - 00:55:15:10
Myron Mann
I mean that that is that is the only they don't have shareholders that's why they're there. And and it was just something about the what I could see when I went in there was that is this whole world of disability employment and services for people with disability had shifted from state government funding to NDIS So the business model had been completely flipped on its head, whereas it used to be wages used to be subsidized.

00:55:15:10 - 00:55:43:11
Myron Mann
Now there's a wage subsidy payment for supports and those sorts of things. And yet most of the most organizations like Bedford were still sort of standing like frozen in the headlights, trying to work out what do we do, how are we going to do this and that was I saw that as a real, real challenge. Yeah, I saw that as a real opportunity to to make this step change in in the way things needed to be done.

00:55:43:11 - 00:55:47:08
Myron Mann
And so I, it sort of attracted me back in.

00:55:47:11 - 00:55:47:23
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

00:55:47:24 - 00:55:48:22
Myron Mann
Take up the challenge.

00:55:49:21 - 00:56:02:03
Daniel Franco
For those who are listening who might not know, you know, the wonderful work that is happening out of Bedford. Can you give us a bit of a rundown on the or give us an overview of Bedford and its overall mission?

00:56:02:20 - 00:56:31:00
Myron Mann
Sure. Well, Bedford really exists for one reason, and the purpose is really, really simple. I mean, we're there to support people with disabilities to live the life they choose. Yeah. Now, that sounds like a broad sweeping statement, but is it? It's true. And it's everything that we do, every decision we make, every every investment we make, it has to fit that purpose.

00:56:31:04 - 00:56:41:10
Myron Mann
And we we that purpose sits right at the top of every board paper, every agenda, you know, so that it reminds us that, that this is this is why we're here, you know.

00:56:42:11 - 00:56:44:28
Daniel Franco
So when you say to live the life that.

00:56:45:09 - 00:56:46:06
Myron Mann
They choose, that they.

00:56:46:06 - 00:56:50:01
Daniel Franco
Choose, what does that mean to you and the team?

00:56:50:01 - 00:57:15:27
Myron Mann
So if you look across the services that Bedford provides, you know, we want to provide as much choice so that people have the same choice that you and I do. You know, so if I look at it from an employment standpoint, there will be we deal primarily in intellectual disability. You know, there's about 2000 people with intellectual disability employed in in South Australia.

00:57:16:03 - 00:57:52:12
Myron Mann
We've got about a little over 50% of those at Bedford. That's a broad spectrum of cohort from, from, from fairly low functioning clients to very high functioning clients. And we want first to give them a choice to come to have a job with dignity of a job, if that's what they're looking for. We want them to be able to come to a safe environment where they know that they're welcomed in and they can say they feel safe.

00:57:52:12 - 00:58:25:19
Myron Mann
They or their parents and carers can feel they're safe there, but they have a choice. So if I want to learn to do this job or I want to move this job and I want to progress, just like I had that choice when I started out my career, they have that choice and we want to provide as many of those opportunities we can to to be able to move from from where you may not be in a highly productive role to to to even move moving you to open employment, would, you know, be the greatest thing that we've ever seen for people with an intellectual disability and a lot of people do.

00:58:25:19 - 00:58:50:23
Myron Mann
Yeah. They travel that journey and they do when it comes to things like our day options and our experiences with community activities that they really designed around building capacity, building understanding of how to do things, sometimes it might be personal, sometimes it might be social, whatever it might be. In the accommodation side of our business is for and supported.

00:58:50:23 - 00:59:07:28
Myron Mann
Independent living is for people who who need that support but are prepared and willing and want to live independently. We can provide provide that opportunity for them so they go and come just like anyone one else was. But they have those supports. 24 seven Yeah.

00:59:08:19 - 00:59:34:24
Daniel Franco
So it's an amazing thing. I want to expand on my knowledge of what you just said there, which was the dignity of having a job. Can you, can you expand on that for me? Like I'm I'm really I think for me, you know, we talk about perspectives. I would love to understand the perspective of someone who has to think that or who believes that this job will provide them more dignity.

00:59:34:24 - 00:59:37:01
Daniel Franco
Can you can you expand on that?

00:59:37:03 - 01:00:02:25
Myron Mann
Well, I guess if you if you you kind of look at it and it's it it's in its role as forum. It's very hard for someone with an intellectual disability to find a job. Are not many employers who are willing to employ them. They probably look at them as a by looking. It's a risk. Yeah, it's a it's a concern for work, health and safety, you know.

01:00:03:05 - 01:00:03:13
Daniel Franco
Yep.

01:00:03:21 - 01:00:23:14
Myron Mann
Is it going to slow down other employees? You know, all those sorts of things. So there are not a lot of jobs in the open employment market. And, you know, if you if you want a job and you have the ability to do a job, um, it really is a blow to you, you know, to your self esteem.

01:00:23:20 - 01:00:48:13
Myron Mann
If you just, people don't want to accept you, you know, just because you have a disability. And I think places like Bedford and other organizations, you know, across Australia who do have disability employment opportunities, people love coming to work at these places and they.

01:00:48:19 - 01:00:49:02
Daniel Franco
I mean, if.

01:00:49:02 - 01:01:13:06
Myron Mann
You if you if you talk there was a recent survey done by an organization called Our Voice Australia, something like 90% of the supported employees in disability employment said they loved working where they would work and that you just wouldn't find that any sector anywhere that that sort of thing. And so it's it's not just the dignity. There's a lot of socializing we have.

01:01:13:06 - 01:01:16:29
Myron Mann
Yeah, we have lots of people who find partners and get married.

01:01:17:02 - 01:01:17:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah, right.

01:01:17:24 - 01:01:41:26
Myron Mann
All those sorts of things. It's, you know, there's no doubt there's there's some respite for parents. In fact, there's an economic benefit to parents. If if their child, for example, is working at Bedford, we don't employ anyone under 18, but if they say child about 30, but it gives them the both parents could work, you know, while the child's working, you know, so there's an economic benefit to the family.

01:01:41:26 - 01:01:54:00
Myron Mann
So it's far greater than the the the the sort of idea of just sit here so I can have a job. Yeah. You know, it's it's around self-esteem.

01:01:55:08 - 01:02:30:27
Daniel Franco
So we talked about your transition into the company as CEO and you mentioned purpose being one of those leading indicators for you to, to, to become that to become the CEO. Is there anything in your time working with Bedford or any story in particular or anything that any project that you've worked on or whatever it might be, that that just really emphasized it emphasizes that choice and you just go, yes, we are absolutely making a difference.

01:02:30:27 - 01:02:37:12
Daniel Franco
Yeah, it'd be really great to share a story like that.

01:02:37:12 - 01:03:12:20
Myron Mann
Yeah, there's probably a few of them that I could refer back to. We have employees that they have aspirations, you know, like anyone else, you know, I, and, and so every year we do, um, independent training assessments, we create independent training plans, and that's their opportunity to say, well, that's what I want to learn to do.

01:03:13:13 - 01:03:46:10
Myron Mann
And one of the things that we probably didn't do very well was we didn't actually sort of just measure how will we actually achieve some of those objectives. And so we've we've started sort of following a number of of these to see whether we can actually achieve these. Mhm. And we've had some client and we've had one just recently in our, in our landscaping business who is now he wanted to earn his cert three in landscaping.

01:03:46:10 - 01:04:19:00
Myron Mann
So he's, he's earned his cert two he's now earned cert three from Taif and he's now taking a supervisory role in as opposed to just as a production role. And so I think what the lesson to learn out of this is that but if people have goals and aspirations and they're willing to actually put the time and effort into it, let's make sure that we're actually supporting that.

01:04:19:00 - 01:04:24:22
Myron Mann
And let's make sure that they're getting every opportunity to to do that. And I think that's just.

01:04:25:04 - 01:04:45:00
Daniel Franco
And you guys are providing the platform to be able to do that. I Yeah. Bedford is not without its critics, though. And you know, can you explain why someone would be critical of the Bedford group and what your thought process is around that.

01:04:45:15 - 01:05:19:03
Myron Mann
Why they would pick on a charity? Yeah. Um, look, probably education or lack of understanding maybe, and in some cases, criticism might be justified, but probably not. The criticism is probably not necessarily just Bedford. It might be the sector itself. And I think we'll probably hear that when we the Royal Commission and disability actually releases its findings. I think they won't be critical of any one provider necessarily.

01:05:19:03 - 01:05:19:27
Myron Mann
They'll be critical.

01:05:19:27 - 01:05:20:23
Daniel Franco
Of the great of.

01:05:20:23 - 01:05:52:00
Myron Mann
The federal government in the sector in the way it's designed. Most of the criticism that that that I hear on Bedford is is is a little bit lack of education, lack of understanding of how things work. There's, you know, people who are critical of the wages that are paid, for example, with those wages are there is a wage assessment tool that is approved by the Fair Work Commission.

01:05:53:10 - 01:06:29:20
Myron Mann
It's essentially a measure of productivity. So as compared to, you know, if I have a disability, I might be measured up against what you you can do in this job versus what I can do. And if I can do 50% of that, then my wage probably sits around that 50% mark. There's a calculator. Calculator. Yeah. And there's a supported wage award which, which provides those, those wages and the criticism will often be around that, you know these are much lower than the minimum wage and they probably are.

01:06:30:00 - 01:06:52:00
Myron Mann
Yeah. Because otherwise it's, it, it's very difficult for to find work for, for people to do and actually be competitive in the commercial world. Yeah. There are ways around that. There are better ways to do it. I think where we are getting some influence with fair work in the moment fit what's coming out of the they're going to have one wage assessment.

01:06:52:00 - 01:07:13:06
Myron Mann
They're going to have independent assessors as opposed to bid for doing the assessment, which I think is all very beneficial. Yeah, wages will be higher. They're moving, moving up, but they're still not there. So one of the things that we're trying to do is to to create a pathway internally through having our own open employment, become the market maker.

01:07:13:06 - 01:07:48:00
Myron Mann
I in a very few jobs out there. People people become the market maker in in offering those jobs and open employment at full award wage is not a supported wage. Yep. So that people can come in at this point and they can move all the way through if they have the capacity to go go straight there. There's still some barriers to that with with the way that the disability support pension works through Centrelink and the benefits that are attached to that support pension or absolutely very valuable and necessary for people with disability.

01:07:48:00 - 01:08:09:10
Myron Mann
And you can get the point if you're working too many hours and making too much money, you can lose that that support pension and I think that's a that's a that's something we're seeing that think fondly now with the help of Bill Shorten and Amanda Rishworth, we starting to get a conversation around, okay, how are we going to do this?

01:08:09:10 - 01:08:33:08
Daniel Franco
Pretty good. I mean, I want to spend too much time on the critics. So I but you guys at Bedford are doing some amazing things and have a masterplan in place. What does that master plan look like? What does the future of Bedford look like? I know there's some social impact stuff in there that you're interested in. Can can you give us a nice glossary on that?

01:08:33:19 - 01:08:33:29
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:08:35:20 - 01:09:06:26
Myron Mann
So if you look at Bedford traditionally and I'll talk about employment first and then I'll talk about the other because Employment's the biggest sector of what we do in Bedford. So of that 2000 cohort, it would be 1100 in employment. Yep. So in in what we're trying to do is to basically have a, a structure so that we have the full opportunity.

01:09:06:26 - 01:09:30:15
Myron Mann
So if you come in with an intellectual disability and you haven't had any training or you haven't learned how to do the coming out of school, whatever might be, we want to offer opportunities. We want to offer things that young kids want to do. You know, we, you know, we want things that they're working with computers or they're working with drones or they're doing this or doing that.

01:09:30:15 - 01:09:53:22
Myron Mann
They don't want to come in and put things in in bags, which has been sort the the criticism that you referred to is is, you know, what was previously known as a sheltered workshop or something like that. We want meaningful jobs, meaningful work, and we want people to be have that opportunity to move in and find their way through that like anyone else would would have that opportunity.

01:09:54:05 - 01:10:21:06
Myron Mann
And they have that. And that's what we mean by choice. Yeah. All the way to the other side of that spectrum we have we're creating social enterprises now. These social enterprises, all for profit entities, but they have a purpose which is to employ people with disability. They, they reinvest their profit back in that purpose fully. So they are part of a, a large.

01:10:21:08 - 01:10:22:12
Daniel Franco
Fully 100%.

01:10:22:12 - 01:10:23:08
Myron Mann
100%.

01:10:23:08 - 01:10:23:22
Daniel Franco
Goes back.

01:10:23:22 - 01:10:29:10
Myron Mann
Into their part of the Bedford, not for profit. So all the money gets reinvested back.

01:10:29:12 - 01:10:29:21
Daniel Franco
Into.

01:10:30:06 - 01:11:06:07
Myron Mann
This this area of supported employment is it struggles to actually be sustainable. It doesn't it the the types of jobs and pricing are really difficult to make it sustainable. So this area is going to have to subsidize that. That's our plan. Right on top of that, we want our lot reason fundraising. I parts of Bedford to essentially assist in in that subsidy and to allow us to to build new new buildings so.

01:11:06:07 - 01:11:31:16
Myron Mann
The masterplan that you referred to is is there's a $50 million investment that Bedford is putting into building new fit for purpose facilities, modern air conditioned. You know, a lot of our facilities are dated, you know, that are they need and the cost to upgrade them is actually greater than to build new ones.

01:11:31:16 - 01:11:32:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah, well.

01:11:32:24 - 01:11:51:25
Myron Mann
The sort of complexity is people relocating, people changing. All those things take time in the, you know, the, the families have to get involved. It's not just you have to find a way to the other site. It's everyone else's family that's could.

01:11:51:27 - 01:11:54:09
Daniel Franco
Increase the drive of 15 minutes. Good.

01:11:54:10 - 01:11:56:26
Myron Mann
Or the bus trip means two busses and still one bus. Yeah.

01:11:57:08 - 01:11:57:20
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:11:57:23 - 01:12:16:06
Myron Mann
You know, and we go through all that. We have support people who will ride the bus, teach them, you know, make sure that people know how to do it, know that sort of thing. So the idea really behind this in this there's there's a movement sort of worldwide when you talk about social enterprises and I know some of your previous podcast.

01:12:16:25 - 01:12:23:16
Daniel Franco
Organization around the Eloise Hall who you know quite well from A to B period, she's a remarkable human being.

01:12:23:16 - 01:12:49:18
Myron Mann
She is. And those social enterprises are is is really a movement globally these days. I think, you know, the generation today really, really focused on on social good and and compared to my generation that, you know, you know, grew up in, you know, the seventies and eighties where it was just go, go, go. Yeah. You know, where.

01:12:49:18 - 01:12:51:07
Daniel Franco
I can get some money. Yeah, exactly.

01:12:51:11 - 01:13:10:04
Myron Mann
And so I think, you know, the world is changing in that perspective, you know. And so these social enterprises are really designed to to give people with intellectual disability and all abilities. Yeah. Opportunity to do what they want to do. Yeah. Live the dream.

01:13:10:28 - 01:13:21:27
Daniel Franco
So social enterprise as a topic is something that you are passionate about. I know your daughters are involved with social enterprise. Is that correct or. No, they just know they're just friends with people. You know.

01:13:22:05 - 01:13:32:18
Myron Mann
They're friends with people who are. But I think probably what I said to you at one point was I just watch the companies that they buy from. Yeah.

01:13:33:13 - 01:13:33:28
Daniel Franco
That's true.

01:13:33:29 - 01:13:36:11
Myron Mann
Almost always have some sort of social.

01:13:36:11 - 01:13:37:04
Daniel Franco
Impact then.

01:13:37:10 - 01:13:44:11
Myron Mann
And so they pick and choose who they buy from. Yeah. Based on what they know that.

01:13:44:11 - 01:13:45:13
Daniel Franco
Socially and then.

01:13:45:13 - 01:13:47:18
Myron Mann
So they have that consciousness around that.

01:13:48:00 - 01:14:15:18
Daniel Franco
They absolutely do. So what type of businesses should look at social impacts like is it is it something that they can they turn their moral because to me when I was listening to Eloise speak and we've met a few times I to talk the operating model of the business and the way it all works. But for me it does seem a little bit more complex than the traditional model.

01:14:15:18 - 01:14:44:26
Daniel Franco
It's not as easy to run a social enterprise when you are when you are putting that that profit back into it. So someone like Bedford, who on the side builds the social impact, that money then goes back into the cause. It's great. And there's also another business potentially feeding the cash. Cash is always king right there are some companies that struggle to find investment because the profits are going back to the cause.

01:14:44:26 - 01:14:49:10
Daniel Franco
That seems to be the issue. I see. Is that something that you would see as well?

01:14:50:02 - 01:15:14:21
Myron Mann
Yeah. And this is this is really where I'm I'm spending a lot of time trying to I see it probably I think interestingly, I went to the social Enterprise World Forum, which I call Brisbane in September last year, and I went to a debate about what the definition of a social enterprise actually was.

01:15:14:21 - 01:15:16:27
Daniel Franco
It's probably a good starting point that we could talk about. Yeah.

01:15:18:08 - 01:15:35:02
Myron Mann
And one side was sort of arguing, well, the debate was really whether it should have a definition. One side was arguing that it should, and this is what the definition was. And the other side was arguing we really shouldn't have a definition. It's really about the social impact. It's not about what the structure looks like.

01:15:35:02 - 01:15:58:29
Myron Mann
Yeah. Or do I take it external capital into my business to grow or any of those sorts of things. It's, you know, it was but in the world that we are operating and I'm trying to understand the for me, I it's a matter of how do you balance the the financial and the social performance. And so you have to measure both.

01:15:58:29 - 01:16:23:18
Myron Mann
And how do you give how do you give whoever supplies the capital, whether that happens to be Bedford through its own balance sheet or an external investor in our social, how do we give them both financial return and the ESG return? Basically, yeah, we're the S in the ESG, but and there is a lot of capital out there looking to invest in in that in that area.

01:16:23:18 - 01:16:55:13
Myron Mann
So these social enterprises, I don't think you can fault a social enterprise, whatever structure it takes or whatever definition it has, because its real purpose is to make an impact. Yes. Okay. If you want it to be a business where people can be paid the kind of wages that we're trying to pay people with disability, it to have a financial performance to that.

01:16:56:06 - 01:17:36:23
Myron Mann
But at the same time it has to have a social performance and that social performance has to be measured. We need to know what that impact. Yeah, so in our social enterprises, we working with Flinders University and there's social impact area to actually create the, the metrics. Yeah. Right from the very start as to how do we collect the data, how do we know exactly what that, that impact that we're having is part of that impact might be for the benefit of taxpayers because people are earning higher wages, they're paying more tax, they're not being supported through, you know, government schemes or whatever it may be.

01:17:37:19 - 01:17:44:27
Myron Mann
There are lots of ways for for social impact to occur. But it's a it's a tricky world of drawing.

01:17:45:08 - 01:18:04:04
Daniel Franco
Well, I think, like how you do this. I mean, you know, we said earlier, cash is king, right. And the more cash you have, the more ability to have an impact. That's kind of the way I've always thought about it. Right. So you see, so say you do have a let's use the taboo period product as an example.

01:18:04:04 - 01:18:20:22
Daniel Franco
They have these amazing products. It that they need money to create. And the more that they create, the more impact they can have. And that's kind of what I'm saying. Yeah, but when investment is tough to find because the returns go back into the debt.

01:18:20:22 - 01:18:23:24
Myron Mann
Yeah. And then it becomes philanthropic.

01:18:24:08 - 01:18:25:15
Daniel Franco
Then it then then more.

01:18:25:15 - 01:18:26:04
Myron Mann
Than it does.

01:18:26:04 - 01:18:33:09
Daniel Franco
Exactly. Exactly. And then and then that's that money is much harder to find when you're looking for the. Yeah.

01:18:33:09 - 01:18:43:12
Myron Mann
And it, it is and you know probably it, it's growing in Australia but it's not as Yeah.

01:18:43:12 - 01:18:44:24
Daniel Franco
As big as it is in the.

01:18:44:24 - 01:18:47:02
Myron Mann
North America or Europe, but yeah.

01:18:47:04 - 01:19:02:18
Daniel Franco
So I think that's the pie because you see these and you, there's a few of really great social impact, you know, enterprise in, in South Australia and you just, you want the best for them. But yeah, like money is always the.

01:19:02:25 - 01:19:12:12
Myron Mann
The stigma if you, if you're going to increase that impact in that the business you're running is going to have to grow and correct that.

01:19:12:22 - 01:19:13:05
Daniel Franco
Correct?

01:19:13:11 - 01:19:19:04
Myron Mann
Yes, you can have an impact, but it's always to be pretty much on spot and you can find hundred.

01:19:19:07 - 01:19:50:09
Daniel Franco
Percent. How do you see how do you see the trends within socially like can technology play? I mean, you've gone through this forum, you're obviously well researched. Can help in any of these areas in growing the social enterprise. I mean, technology can help everything. But is there a way in which we can leverage technology to improve performance or improve reach of social enterprise?

01:19:50:26 - 01:20:20:14
Myron Mann
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're looking at the I think it's three different opportunities with social enterprise at the moment have all come about as a result of of technology. Yeah. Things we hadn't actually thought about, but they, they potentially can disrupt certain sectors of the market. It's not a problem for us to have our clients actually working in these businesses.

01:20:20:18 - 01:20:23:24
Myron Mann
Technology is such that in fact I think they would love it.

01:20:23:24 - 01:20:24:06
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:20:24:17 - 01:20:25:11
Myron Mann
These sorts of things.

01:20:25:11 - 01:20:30:07
Daniel Franco
So is there is it something you can divulge? Was that secrets that you want to keep close to your chest right now?

01:20:30:09 - 01:20:30:26
Myron Mann
Probably too.

01:20:30:26 - 01:20:42:24
Daniel Franco
Early days. I could talk about it. Yeah, very good. How do you think governments can support this area more?

01:20:42:24 - 01:21:15:01
Myron Mann
As a really, really good question. It's I guess, first of all, government has to sort of define what their role really needs to be or should be. Yeah. And they would look at the the the social impact more than anything else. So if you look at something like the NDIS, for example I mean it has been an enormous benefit to people with disability.

01:21:15:01 - 01:21:46:08
Myron Mann
It's created opportunities for people with disabilities and solutions and it it's been enormous. It the cost of it is, is extreme at this point. Next year it will be the single largest budget item if yeah if treasury doesn't sort of capitalize. Oh yeah. But there are parts of the parts of, of services that don't neatly fit into the NDIS.

01:21:46:16 - 01:22:22:06
Myron Mann
And so I think government needs to look at how they, how they approach some of these things, but it's still a bit split between Shorten's portfolio and his portfolio. You've got NDIS and one in Department of Social Services and another. Both of them touch disability in a lot of ways. So I think one approach to that from my my view is that government needs to, to bring all this together, have a consolidated, uh, universal approach to it, not have it so fragmented.

01:22:22:27 - 01:22:55:01
Myron Mann
I think that's one, one thing they can, can do. I think the other thing is that and I think it's happening, it's starting to happen is and I think government needs to to listen to people with disability. I think they need to hear that voice, hear what they want. They don't easily have a way of being heard. Uh, so often it comes through providers like, like Bedford and in, there's, there's sometimes this view that let's go back to this criticism.

01:22:55:01 - 01:23:18:08
Myron Mann
There's sometimes, as will Bedford's just saying this because it's in the best interest of Bedford as opposed to their their clients or employees. So they need a voice. They need they need a way to have that voice. Yeah. And it's starting to happen because both ministers are conducting roundtables and discussions, and I think that's probably the single biggest thing the government can do is listen to people with disability.

01:23:18:08 - 01:23:20:08
Myron Mann
Yeah. And it didn't, it didn't.

01:23:20:26 - 01:23:21:17
Daniel Franco
Know Dylan.

01:23:21:17 - 01:23:26:06
Myron Mann
Alcott was, you know, has a voice and he can speak.

01:23:28:10 - 01:24:02:01
Daniel Franco
The NDIS well and I know many people who work in that space or in this space of disability where they have the ability to offer they own businesses and have the ability to offer services that are funded by NDIS. It does seem somewhat like a cash grab for a lot of people and there are there has been news articles and there has been like, you know tried tonight all these sort of scenarios, 60 Minutes where there have been some fraud, there is a bit of fraud going on.

01:24:02:21 - 01:24:24:10
Daniel Franco
Does it feel like to you it's a foolproof system or is there a there needs to be a bit of work. She talked about the budget going to be bigger and bigger. But yeah, there are these other businesses that are taking advantage. I'm not saying for these, but I'm just suggesting that that there's a systems feel right to you right now.

01:24:24:10 - 01:25:05:20
Myron Mann
Oh, look, I think any time you you have government spending $35 billion and there's going to be people trying to take advantage of it. Yeah. You know, no different in aged care scenarios we've seen, you know. So yeah, either, you know I think there's there's outright fraud, you know, where people are just exploiting the system and then there's probably there probably incidences of of it systems are very rudimentary you know with yeah.

01:25:05:20 - 01:25:24:28
Myron Mann
With the NDIS in most of the providers there are probably instances where, where things aren't always the way they should be. But I don't think there's any intentional fraud in that. I think there's the fraud is talking about is, you know, through organized crime and through you know, people who really are trying to rort systems.

01:25:24:29 - 01:25:28:06
Daniel Franco
Often their way through. Yeah very good.

01:25:29:21 - 01:25:57:05
Myron Mann
The answer is what would be beneficial would be to to to build systems where providers are properly linked in to India's portal instead of having everybody else doing their own thing. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's a bit like Centrelink if you could do it. I mean the ATO, you can fill out your tax returns, you know India is needs to get to that.

01:25:57:05 - 01:25:57:16
Myron Mann
Yeah.

01:25:57:26 - 01:25:58:15
Daniel Franco
The models their.

01:26:00:00 - 01:26:03:12
Myron Mann
Company be based.

01:26:03:12 - 01:26:29:11
Daniel Franco
Before we start rounding up you are very interested in in the leadership and your fellow of the Governors Leadership Foundation. I just want to ask a few questions around leadership. And what what advice do you have for other CEOs or aspiring or entrepreneurs around their own leadership development?

01:26:29:11 - 01:26:29:20
Myron Mann
Um.

01:26:30:18 - 01:26:33:26
Daniel Franco
I mean, because self-actualization is critical in all is.

01:26:33:26 - 01:27:06:16
Myron Mann
It is it is. Well, I, I think I think you have to you have to want to learn. And I think you need to put yourself in a position to learn. Yeah. I mean, I like I said, I just did this course at Harvard last. Yeah. Probably 80% of that course I already knew, already had. You know, some of it was fairly basic.

01:27:06:16 - 01:27:12:02
Myron Mann
Yeah, it was. But it was the, the opportunity to talk to hundred people around the world.

01:27:12:02 - 01:27:12:16
Daniel Franco
And yeah, we're.

01:27:12:18 - 01:27:21:20
Myron Mann
On this zoom call every I just happened to do it at 130 in the morning because it was the it was done it, you know, 930 in in Boston.

01:27:21:24 - 01:27:22:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Yeah.

01:27:22:22 - 01:27:47:15
Myron Mann
And and they were, you know, in my study group, I had people from Africa, people from Scandinavia, Europe and South America. So, you know, it was just, you know, I was just trying to listen to everything they were saying about how they would do and in these various organizations to to learn from them, you know, and it it was I think you just got to because you got to put the time into it.

01:27:47:15 - 01:27:57:28
Myron Mann
Yeah. Learn it. I mean leadership is much is it is a, you know, something you you're born with.

01:27:57:28 - 01:28:03:06
Daniel Franco
Yeah, no doubt. And it's also about the person that you are leading or the people that you are leading.

01:28:03:06 - 01:28:35:13
Myron Mann
Well, and I think, you know, if leadership in is basing it all the way down, is is really just about caring for people around you. Hmm. And you were talking about that little thing where I might be sitting here and you're sitting there, and we saw this accident happen, and we saw it completely differently. And I think you find that, you know, when you when you when you really have a an understanding of leadership, you'll understand that everyone at something from a different angle.

01:28:35:17 - 01:29:00:14
Myron Mann
And the more diversity you can include in that and the more, you know, ideas you get from from different angles, the better results you'll wind up with. Mm hmm. You know, I think, you know, one of the things you learn in the governor's leadership program is not to do what you describe and look at the problem, but then flip it around and put yourself in the other side of it and look as the problem.

01:29:00:14 - 01:29:19:14
Myron Mann
Yeah. You know, and see if you can actually understand that, you know, where this is coming from as opposed to I mean, because often your management position, you know, so that we just need to do this, you know, when in fact all the people around you might act, might not actually agree with you, speak to that because you haven't considered all of these things.

01:29:20:02 - 01:29:32:11
Myron Mann
And so I think it's just having that ability to to again, just surround yourself with people who in and create that environment where people will talk to you about it.

01:29:32:11 - 01:29:44:13
Daniel Franco
And I love that. I think last time we spoke, you said something to me and I wrote it. I wrote it down. And you said business is a set of problems that need to be resolved.

01:29:45:16 - 01:29:46:18
Myron Mann
That was my wife, Stephanie.

01:29:46:18 - 01:30:15:23
Daniel Franco
Oh, that was your wife's definition. Well, then, you know, so kudos. But the the what stuck out for me was, was that is the idea of leadership, your ability to lead people through a set of problems or you know, is that kind of or is it because knowing that you're going to set the strategy and then naturally you're going to come up against these problems along the way?

01:30:16:03 - 01:30:35:21
Myron Mann
That's probably where I would would draw a difference between management and leadership. Yeah, I think from a management standpoint, business is a set of problems. It need to. Yes. To be resolved in you know, they they probably every day you walk in and there's another one in leadership is probably how you go about it. Yeah in.

01:30:35:28 - 01:30:36:04
Daniel Franco
How you.

01:30:36:04 - 01:30:55:07
Myron Mann
How would you say how you create where these problems can be solved in a way or in a in a in a in a, in a manner that you include others and you, you, you come to a better solution. Mm. Do you.

01:30:57:04 - 01:31:03:20
Daniel Franco
Do you learn leadership through being a leader or can you go and learn through a half day course.

01:31:06:13 - 01:31:23:03
Myron Mann
Where you can learn from a half day course. I don't think you can actually probably become good at it unless you do lead. Yeah. You know, you can teach me how to kick a football, but you know, the only way I'm going to get better at it is practice.

01:31:23:10 - 01:31:32:12
Daniel Franco
I agree. And I think the half day course is definitely something that contributes to your kitbag, I guess is this.

01:31:32:12 - 01:31:38:25
Myron Mann
Is just part of you know, I haven't thought about that I could do it that way. Yeah. But until you try it and you practice it and you.

01:31:39:06 - 01:31:40:00
Daniel Franco
Get better and you get.

01:31:40:00 - 01:31:44:00
Myron Mann
Feedback on it and then you've probably, you know, perfected.

01:31:44:00 - 01:32:13:26
Daniel Franco
What's the idea? Living within the ambiguity and stepping into discomfort as a leader is and it is those conversations that you just do not want to have those phone calls that you don't want to take. Yeah. How do you how do you manage yourself in that situation? How do you compartmentalize the the issues of the business to to the issues with people?

01:32:13:26 - 01:32:41:03
Myron Mann
I probably feel a bit lucky in the sense that I think I do it almost naturally, whereas I know other people struggle. Yeah, compartmentalize those sorts of things. I think the thing you have to really do is you have to understand it almost all the time. When you get into these situations, you're told that there's there's emotion involved.

01:32:41:28 - 01:33:10:09
Myron Mann
You almost have to take as much of that emotion of it as you can so that you actually don't get drawn one way or the other. And that's hard because sometimes the emotion just overtakes and it sometimes you can't compartmentalize it. Sometimes you just they do have too many to me, same connections, touch points, basically. You have to just realize that they do.

01:33:10:26 - 01:33:52:06
Myron Mann
But I, I think from a business standpoint, you know, if I look purely at operations, for example, I mean, that's easy to compartmentalize. Yeah, they are. They're, they're, they're tried and tested ways for how you solve those issues. When it gets down to people, which is probably where most of these things occur, then you have to have a way of of listening, communicating, trying to coach, teach and at some point probably making a decision you have to, but I think that's the the battle we all face every day.

01:33:52:26 - 01:34:09:00
Daniel Franco
Like I'm a young leader and a young CEO. I want to make a dent on this world. And there are situations that pop up daily where that sickening stomach feeling mean. You would have felt an.

01:34:09:00 - 01:34:09:19
Myron Mann
Absolutely.

01:34:09:22 - 01:34:14:28
Daniel Franco
Does it does it become less and less over the years this experience push that away.

01:34:15:01 - 01:34:40:20
Myron Mann
And what probably helps is you learn to trust yourself. Mm. Where in, in, in the early days you, you're probably sitting here, you know, thinking, am I reading the situation right? Or I'm standing all this if I make this decision, you learned it, you learn to trust yourself. And I think over time, the more you trust yourself, you know, the more you, you do have that confidence that.

01:34:40:24 - 01:34:55:01
Myron Mann
Yeah, yep. Sickening feeling still comes. Yeah. Oh, here we go again. Yeah. And then what? Then you, you generally have experience in, you probably start to say, okay, well this is how I need to do. Yeah, yeah.

01:34:55:15 - 01:35:02:00
Daniel Franco
I mean, that's one thing I've been told numerous times is that I need to start trusting myself more.

01:35:03:13 - 01:35:03:27
Myron Mann
It's hard.

01:35:03:29 - 01:35:34:24
Daniel Franco
What does that look like? Yeah. You know, I trust in my ability to have a great conversation. I trust in my ability to. But as someone who has and and walks on the edge of perfection ism and the the trusting is difficult because yes, I have a growth mindset. I'm happy to make mistakes. But when dealing with people and you're dealing with livelihoods potentially and, you know, mistakes, you don't want them to happen.

01:35:34:24 - 01:35:36:22
Daniel Franco
They're not the type of mistakes you want to. Right.

01:35:38:03 - 01:36:09:00
Myron Mann
They're not. And, you know, I look back on my career in there probably one or two times when I regret doing what I did, you know, around of a people problem or a situation. I think I could have managed it better. And I hope that I, I learn, you know, from it because it's, it is a, it's even more gut wrenching than the the problem itself.

01:36:09:01 - 01:36:17:26
Myron Mann
Mhm. But maybe, maybe don't try to be the perfectionist. Yeah. I.

01:36:18:09 - 01:36:19:11
Daniel Franco
You know, I think, I think it's.

01:36:19:13 - 01:36:43:15
Myron Mann
I think it's, it's really hard to walk that line to be the perfectionist because what you'll often find, you're not making a decision because you, you, you're trying to get that perfect solution. Yeah. When in fact, you know, making a decision and that, that doing something and making progress is probably more beneficial than trying to wait to you get to the grades.

01:36:43:18 - 01:37:09:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah. I mean the I'm definitely not saying perfectionism is a trait that you want in your in your repertoire. It's it's something when I say I walk the line of it, it is it's the I think it's probably got more to do with the, you know, the the inability. Well, I don't want to, uh, I don't want to hurt people or I don't want to upset people.

01:37:09:25 - 01:37:11:03
Daniel Franco
It's probably a better way of putting it.

01:37:11:03 - 01:37:39:18
Myron Mann
And I think, yeah, I think the, the older get in, the more experienced you get. And I don't mean this in a, in a selfish way, the less you worry about what other people think, you know, it's, you know, if, if, when I say other people, I mean the sort of broader community. Yeah, you know, who may criticize you for what you did because that that decision may be between you and that individual that you're you're needing to make a decision.

01:37:39:18 - 01:37:42:06
Daniel Franco
Yeah. They haven't got, they haven't got the perspective have they. Yeah.

01:37:42:07 - 01:37:46:21
Myron Mann
Right. The rest of are looking at it from. Yeah. Whatever, whatever information they have.

01:37:48:07 - 01:38:12:15
Daniel Franco
One thing that I work, I'm working on, I work with a lot of people and as you can imagine running this podcast and I have a, a kitbag of mental is up in my pocket right where I can call people on a whim and ask him a question. I was given advice the other day saying that I'm listening to too many people and I'm interested in your thoughts on that.

01:38:12:25 - 01:38:32:01
Daniel Franco
Can you have much advice as a CEO or as a leader of an organization coming in that it becomes overwhelming, that then you get the analysis paralysis and you don't know what to do with it because you listen to so many great people and you listen to all their advice. Some contradict each other, and then you're left with all.

01:38:33:20 - 01:39:13:11
Myron Mann
Yeah, I, I would probably say you can have too many, too much advice. I think it, it can cause you to be questioning your own judgment, you know, when you're getting different opinions from different places. And I and I think, you know, there again, this probably comes back to learning to trust judgment and so it's hard it's hard to say don't listen to other people.

01:39:13:11 - 01:39:18:29
Myron Mann
Don't don't reach out to other people to get those opinions because I think that's what helped form some of the. Yeah.

01:39:18:29 - 01:39:20:22
Daniel Franco
It's about what you do with those opinions isn't it.

01:39:20:22 - 01:39:45:03
Myron Mann
Yeah. But I think how do you, how do you then sort of how do you then sort of dissect all that. And to me that's where the problem is it, you know, you can just get frozen, you know, and um, you know, that's, you see that in a business, you don't do anything because this one says this and this one says, I think you have to come up with a solution, say, well, okay, if I go that way, this is, this is where I'm going.

01:39:45:03 - 01:40:05:04
Myron Mann
If I go once, you know, where you going once you've got clarity of purpose and clarity of plan, that advice will probably either support that purpose and plan or it'll be contrary to it. I would always go with where it supports that. Yeah. If you got clarity in the purpose of what you're doing, what you guys do. Yeah, yeah.

01:40:05:20 - 01:40:11:21
Daniel Franco
I think these, these scenarios are not just things that I'm grappling with. It's. Oh, it is, isn't it.

01:40:12:10 - 01:40:20:10
Myron Mann
What you see, you see it in you follow the news with government. I mean, you know, getting advice from everybody, you know, and then nothing happens.

01:40:21:01 - 01:40:36:14
Daniel Franco
Yeah, it's circle spin. One last question that I do want to ask before we jump into the quickfire questions. Is this how much of your decision making do you rely on gut versus logic?

01:40:36:14 - 01:41:21:05
Myron Mann
Um, I. I trust my gut. Yeah. And often my gut will be because I've had an experience somewhere that's not dissimilar to, to the situation. Yeah. Or I don't find that I have to many times that logic and gut or that different. Mm. I might have some times where logic and gut are very similar but back to the last question, a lot of people, other people's opinion might be different from mine.

01:41:21:05 - 01:41:40:09
Myron Mann
Yeah. And I probably would trust my gut. Yeah. And I think if you, if you feel, if you take the responsibility and you say, okay, I'm accountable for this, so I have to trust my own gut here and I'll just I'll be accountable for whatever decision I make. I love it.

01:41:41:04 - 01:41:50:08
Daniel Franco
Beautiful. Excellent. All right. Let's jump into some quickfire questions before we round up what. So your first question is, what are you reading right now? But you've answered that already.

01:41:50:17 - 01:42:13:01
Myron Mann
Well, really, two books I'm reading this from strength to strength, and I'm reading a book called Youthquake 4.0. Okay. Which was written by a futurist out of New South Wales. And he's basically it's written around the the the young generation and what he calls the, the fourth industrial revolution. Um, so it's quite interesting. Um, youthquake, 4.1.

01:42:13:02 - 01:42:17:11
Daniel Franco
What's, um, what's happening in that space? Well, read the book.

01:42:17:18 - 01:42:44:06
Myron Mann
Yeah, I've read the book, but it, you know, it, I just, I just love watching how these futurists did, you know. Yeah. These things. But yeah, basically it's just, it's, it's around the psyche of the youth and all changes that are happening in technology. It's just changing the world we live in. And they move with it very quickly.

01:42:44:07 - 01:42:44:12
Myron Mann
Yeah.

01:42:45:00 - 01:42:46:00
Daniel Franco
It's almost as if.

01:42:46:09 - 01:42:51:25
Myron Mann
Come in, they do things differently. Well, they do. Yeah. They just, they just get on with it. Um.

01:42:52:26 - 01:43:06:17
Daniel Franco
So what's one book that stands out from the crowd for you? Like, is there one that you've gifted? Is there one that you've recommended more?

01:43:06:17 - 01:43:41:07
Myron Mann
There's a book that I probably go back to. Com, you know, over and over. It's a book called If it's going to if it's going to be, it's up to me. Okay. As written by Robert Schuller, who, uh, who basically it's a book that it's about the power of positive thinking and but more so about the fact that you control your destiny or you let other people control it.

01:43:41:07 - 01:43:53:09
Myron Mann
So I think sometimes when I'm faced with a difficult situation, I go back and I sort of read a chapter to this book and look at it and it says to me, You know what? It you're the problem. Not that.

01:43:53:09 - 01:43:53:29
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:43:54:22 - 01:43:55:19
Myron Mann
You know, you fix it.

01:43:55:26 - 01:43:59:19
Daniel Franco
So if it's going to be it's up to me. It's probably a good life philosophy, you.

01:43:59:19 - 01:44:00:03
Myron Mann
Know is.

01:44:00:15 - 01:44:14:15
Daniel Franco
Yeah. What's one lesson that's taking you the longest to learn?

01:44:14:15 - 01:44:22:29
Myron Mann
Probably that the, the problem keeps returning. If you don't learn the lesson you know.

01:44:23:19 - 01:44:24:25
Daniel Franco
I mean, I guess if you think about.

01:44:24:25 - 01:44:46:22
Myron Mann
How many times you face this same same problem comes up, you know, and you say to yourself, Jeez, I already knew I should have handled that differently, or sort of done it differently. I think I think, you know, it it it it just I think there's almost this sort of inertia around you that, sort of if, you know, if you don't learn the lesson, then, you know, the test is coming back.

01:44:46:22 - 01:44:57:18
Daniel Franco
Yeah, well, that's an Einstein thing, isn't it? You can't keep banging your head against a wall and expecting different results. Yeah, 10%. Three people that you could invite for dinner. Who would they be?

01:44:58:26 - 01:44:59:19
Myron Mann
Dead or alive?

01:45:00:01 - 01:45:02:08
Daniel Franco
Whoever you want.

01:45:02:08 - 01:45:33:04
Myron Mann
Oh, that's a hard one for me. It's probably. I would say that I would probably. You almost feel like you'd like to invite some of the current politicians and banks, some heads around. I'd probably like to have Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Gorbachev.

01:45:33:07 - 01:45:33:28
Daniel Franco
Yeah, well.

01:45:34:08 - 01:45:42:09
Myron Mann
Three. I'd really like to understand what quietly got talked about between the three of them when the world changed so dramatically.

01:45:42:24 - 01:45:46:10
Daniel Franco
You know, I'd be very interesting conversation.

01:45:46:13 - 01:45:46:23
Myron Mann
Yeah.

01:45:47:10 - 01:45:49:03
Daniel Franco
Well, some of the best advice that you've ever.

01:45:49:03 - 01:46:25:16
Myron Mann
Received, you know, I think probably two areas. One is don't be afraid of of the truth and whatever whatever it is, it is. Yeah, you know, um, trying to get around that is probably never going to work out. It's, it's a way of sort of biting, you.

01:46:25:27 - 01:46:39:03
Daniel Franco
Know, putting your head in the sand is a very good if you had one, if you had a sorry, if you had a time machine one trip, where would you go?

01:46:39:03 - 01:47:03:29
Myron Mann
That would probably be bit personal. I'm I'm in the middle of writing a book about family history. Very good. And so all of the the the characters, the dates and the places and everything, their they're facts. The but I don't have a whole lot of information about them. So I'm making up the story about their lives. I would probably want to go back to the point where I absolutely am certain I can trace my family back to.

01:47:03:29 - 01:47:14:12
Myron Mann
And then there's a little bit of uncertainty as the the next I would like to go back to that point and actually clarify some points. So it's a bit personal now.

01:47:14:12 - 01:47:34:06
Daniel Franco
I love that we had I still remember Shane from when I said one day I wouldn't mind and it just blew my mind. And I've repeated this a few times and he said, um, I would go back to when my grandfather was 18 years old to just hang out with him and just.

01:47:34:10 - 01:47:34:24
Myron Mann
Well it's got.

01:47:35:06 - 01:47:53:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah, yeah. And just learned he just understand what type of person that he was. I thought it was really insightful. If your house was on fire, your pets were safe, your family was safe. Is there anything that you'd run back in and save?

01:47:53:24 - 01:47:59:17
Myron Mann
Um, well, the obvious answer is photos, but they're all backed up in the cloud, so don't really need.

01:48:00:08 - 01:48:00:10
Daniel Franco
To.

01:48:00:13 - 01:48:01:04
Myron Mann
Pose.

01:48:01:04 - 01:48:02:05
Daniel Franco
Tough question these days.

01:48:02:27 - 01:48:21:18
Myron Mann
I'm not a very materialistic person. Yeah. So, I mean, they're not sort of material things that I'm really attached to. I, you know, I think all the important documents are in a fireproof.

01:48:22:00 - 01:48:26:11
Daniel Franco
Yeah.

01:48:26:11 - 01:48:31:20
Myron Mann
So, I don't know. I'll probably just turn to my family and say, is there.

01:48:31:20 - 01:48:38:24
Daniel Franco
Anything else we that's interesting is if we'd asked that question in 1979, it would have been a different answer.

01:48:38:24 - 01:48:50:19
Myron Mann
Oh, yeah, it would have been. It would have been, you know, the obvious answers you want to get the memories, everything, the memories, you know, they're lost. But, you know, 99% of those are online accessible.

01:48:50:19 - 01:49:04:10
Daniel Franco
Now, if you had one superhero pal, if you could have one superhero power, what would it be?

01:49:04:10 - 01:49:08:26
Myron Mann
Well, I expect you're talking about the Marvel characters.

01:49:08:26 - 01:49:10:00
Daniel Franco
Marvel. I mean, you can.

01:49:10:02 - 01:49:20:18
Myron Mann
You can. I think my super power would be manifesting. Yeah, I think I'd like to be able to have that power to turn a dream into reality.

01:49:21:03 - 01:49:21:25
Daniel Franco
Oh, I like that.

01:49:22:19 - 01:49:29:14
Myron Mann
I think that would be the super like to have if I had to pick a marvel character. I don't. I'd probably say.

01:49:29:22 - 01:49:30:17
Daniel Franco
No, no, no, it's right.

01:49:30:17 - 01:49:31:09
Myron Mann
Vision or something.

01:49:31:09 - 01:49:57:24
Daniel Franco
Doesn't need to be marvel. Manifesting would be like that. I've never thought about the manifesting one. I've always said like the power of knowledge, because apparently you can just do it anyway. Yeah, yeah. But manifesting could could almost just create it for you. You never really. It's brilliant. Okay. My favorite question of the whole podcast. What's the best dad joke?

01:49:57:24 - 01:50:08:21
Myron Mann
I'm not really much of a but um, I heard one the other day. Um, how much does a really cool hipster dad weigh.

01:50:09:17 - 01:50:10:02
Daniel Franco
How much.

01:50:11:11 - 01:50:12:20
Myron Mann
And Instagram.

01:50:14:07 - 01:50:42:03
Daniel Franco
That's or well done. Very good. Thank you very much for your time today Marn. It was a pleasure listening to your story starting off all the way back in Woodstock to where we are today with Bedford Group and all the amazing work you guys are doing. Kudos to you and the team out there. I think it's an amazing organization that is obviously having impact on many, many lives here in South Australia and beyond.

01:50:42:27 - 01:50:50:12
Daniel Franco
So yeah, well done to you and the team and we're very excited about this masterplan and every way that you're taking it. So keep up the great work.

01:50:50:21 - 01:50:53:11
Myron Mann
Thank you very much for inviting me and I've enjoyed it.

01:50:53:11 - 01:50:57:02
Daniel Franco
It's been great. Where can we find you? Should people want to get in touch?

01:50:57:02 - 01:51:03:10
Myron Mann
Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn and very easy to find or you can contact Bedford is enough.

01:51:03:24 - 01:51:15:07
Daniel Franco
Beautiful excellent so Myron Mann on LinkedIn you want to reach out or follow it check us out at synergy outcome there are you and we'll check your next time see you guys.